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Last of Us 2.

Discussion in 'Computers and Gaming' started by The Thumb, Jun 11, 2020.

Discuss Last of Us 2. in the Computers and Gaming area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. dbhoy72

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    Right, * just happened.
     
  2. Officer Doofy Come to me, human man Gold Member

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    Aye anyone giving it a 0 is a *. The general mechanics, visuals and sounds are all incredible, and the gameplay is solid. Likewise I've seen people calling it the game of the generation, which is * mental.:giggle1:

    Not a patch on GoW, Horizon, Red Dead 2 etc.
     
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  3. Artorias

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    Here is a breakdown of the game which sums up what I felt playing through. Warning: of course full of spoilers.
     
  4. Just Kieran Gold Member Gold Member

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    Just finished a second playthrough for the platinum.

    The level design is absolutely incredible.
     
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  5. Moustache

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    Finally finished this on Thursday and I thought it was fantastic. I’m still unsure if I prefer it to the first game (which is an incredibly special game to me) but it’s definitely one of my all time favourites, and easily one of the best games of the generation. While I completely get why it’s polarising, even trying to be approach it more objectively, I honestly don’t get some of the criticisms I’ve seen online.

    There’s so much to talk about with this game, so I’ll spoiler tag the rest of this since I don’t want to risk ruining it for anyone.


    They weren’t kidding when they said the theme of this game was hate. Even with the lighter moments, this is such a relentlessly depressing story. While I think it perhaps isn’t as consistent as the first game, which is still one of my favourites, parts of the sequel absolutely exceed it. The original game greatly benefits from the fact that it’s a straightforward story told in a straightforward way. That’s not to say there aren’t any twists or surprises, but it’s a much more traditional narrative. The second game isn’t some wildly complex premise, its pretty much just about the corrupting nature of hatred and the cycle of violence, but the actual structure of the game and the way in which they deliver the story(the structure of Abby & Ellie’s stories, jumping about in timelines etc) can make it feel like less of a smooth ride in comparison.


    Before getting in to it, I should probably preface this with the fact I saw an incredibly * spoiler that basically gave away the surprise that someone died early on (which in turn made it pretty obvious to work out it was Joel). Other than that the game was completely fresh to me.


    Even with the spoiler, the fact Joel dies wasn’t that much of a surprise. In fact, I think it was probably the one guarantee going in to this game. Joel’s card was marked the moment he killed the people in the hospital and any follow up to his story ultimately had to see him answer for that. As much as I liked his character, his death was perfectly executed for me. Joel dies a horrible, pathetic death and that’s it. He doesn’t haven’t some heroic sacrifice, he gets a death that arguably befits his actions and the world he inhabits. With the exception of maybe Tess, and even that’s borderline, there hasn’t been a single major named character that’s died who had a ‘good’ death, so I appreciate that they didn’t hold back for Joel. Admittedly I would’ve liked to have spent a little bit more time with him (although the flashbacks do alleviate that to an extent) but in the long run, our lack of proper goodbye combined with the final flashback made the ending all the more impactful.


    To address Ellie’s Seattle arc first, I thought the this was handled incredibly well. Seeing her journey develop from a fairly understandable desire for revenge with a veneer of justice, to her then brutalising a dying unarmed woman (with some obvious similarities to Joel’s killing) and then culminating with her killing (albeit in self-defence) a pregnant woman was gripping (but still pretty * up). By Day 3 she’s essentially on a full blown rampage and has complete tunnel vision for the Salt Lake crew (or more specifically, Abby) to the extent that she’s more interested in getting to the aquarium than helping Tommy when the WLF are on a full blown hunt for him. She’s clearly struggling to cope with some pretty serious trauma, which combined with the absolute hatred she has for Abby (and pretty much everyone who gets in her way) leads to some truly messed up moments. I appreciate that this will vary from person to person but, for me, the fact that they genuinely had me questioning whether or not Ellie was taking things too far, is testament to how good of a job they did in selling this story.


    The next major section, and I think this seems to be the issue for a lot of people, is Abby’s story. From my own experience playing the game, and having seen some of what’s been said online, it really does seem like the story lives or dies depending on your connection to Abby. If you truly can’t empathise with her because of what she did to Joel, then the remainder of the story probably isn’t going to resonate with you. While it was a bit jarring at first, getting to see Abby’s perspective was, from a narrative standpoint at least (because it does undeniably lead to some pacing issues) a good decision.

    The major issue we’re confronted with more or less straight off the bat is that not only are we now (or once again) playing the character who killed the fan favourite protagonist, but we soon learn that she dosen’t regret doing doing so.

    People have largely praised the Last of Us for being a game that handles shades of grey well and Abby, to me at least, is one of the best examples of that. She obviously doesn't regret killing Joel, and in the context of the story it’s arguably justifiable (torture aside), but she also comes to realise that killing him didn’t change anything. Her Dad was still dead, the Fireflies were still gone, her obsession had effectively ruined her relationship with Owen, she still had nightmares and she was wasting her life as a grunt for a fascist regime, fighting a war with a bunch of cultists for a cause she didn’t really believe in. This ultimately leads to one of the more interesting things about the game, and why I enjoyed her part of the story so much. Abby’s arc, somewhat ironically, parallels Joel’s story in the first game.

    When Sara dies at the start of the first game, Joel loses his purpose in life and subsequently spends the next two decades doing varying degrees of questionable stuff. Through Ellie he finds/rediscovers his purpose in life, reestablishes a lost relationship (Tommy) and learns to move on from the past. Similarly, as mentioned above, after killing Joel (something that’s she’s dedicated years of life to) her future basically amounts to being a soldier for the WLF. It’s through her meeting and subsequent travels with Lev that she comes to find a new purpose in life, sees the potential to reconcile with Owen (although the Mel stuff obviously hinders that) and in the end learns to move on from Joel.

    Through her time in Seattle we also get to further explore the theme of hatred, this time through via WLF/Seraphite conflict. Instead of a more personal hatred, this time we get to see it on a much larger scale. We learn how Isaac has radicalised the WLF which in turn radicalised the Scars, which not only led to a pointless escalation of violence but also led to a turn towards another kind of hatred (bigotry) from the latter group.

    Abby experiences all of that, but when confronted by the repercussions of her own contribution to the cycle of hatred, she basically relapses. This leads to what I honestly think is one of the low key best moments in the game, where Abby accuses Ellie of wasting the opportunity she gave her by sparing her, not realising the Joel technically did the same thing for her. It takes Lev, a victim of hatred himself, and who represents Abby’s chance at a new beginning, to talk her out of perpetuating the cycle.

    The endgame this leads to is what elevates the game to something truly special for me. Seeing how the Seattle survivors cope with what happened to them. Dina’s chosen to find happiness with her son and relationship with Ellie, Tommy has been twisted by his obsessive hatred costing him his relationship and Ellie is struggling with PTSD and a lack of closure.

    That final fight in the water is easily one of the best most moments from either game. It honestly might be one of my favourite moments from a game ever. Both Abby and Ellie are basically shadows of their former selves and it just feels wrong. It’s hatred in its purest form, a miserable, brutal fight where there isn’t going to be any real winner. Seeing Ellie choose to spare Abby, not because she forgives her (she probably couldn’t ever truly do that) but because she finally forgives Joel was pure catharsis.

    Then we get the ending with Ellie coming back to an empty house, unable to play the guitar due to her injuries (one of her last remaining connections to Joel) but accepting the choices she made. She did what she felt she had to do, and now that she has, she can move on and search for a new purpose. It’s a truly impactful ending.

    I honestly don’t think I’ve ever played a game that felt as emotionally exhausting as this one. As much as I want to replay it (and I’m definitely planning on playing both games back to back) I definitely want to takea break before jumping back in.



    General/Rambling Points:


    • This game reminded me of so much of RDR2. Both of their previous games were somewhat of a ‘surprise’ back when they released (in terms of The emotional impact of their narratives, rather than the quality of the games themselves) and that’s something that’s always going to be difficult to replicate when people now expect it from the sequel. The stories they try to tell are a bit broader/more involved than their predecessors which sometimes end up leading to a slightly less consistent narrative. But for me, while the overall story may be less consistent, they both have moments that surpass what came before. There’s a lot of crossover with * of War as well, which is funny considering that some people accused that game of ripping off the Last of Us.
    • I wasn’t entirely sure on the structure of the game both when playing it, and immediately after finishing it. Playing through Ellie’s journey through Seattle, only to have to effectively start over again with Abby felt a bit questionable at first, and it made me wonder why they didn’t just interchange throughout. The more I’ve thought about it though, it actually heightened Ellie’s story. Her part of the Seattle story relies heavily on the fact that she’s completely dehumanised her victims. If we already ‘cared‘ about the people she was killing, the point they were trying to make would’ve been lost. Abby’s story subsequently did a decent-ish job of showing the person behind the victim.

    • I honestly don’t get some of the stuff I’ve seen about online regarding the perceived morality of certain characters, particularly Joel. Joel does some good things (see his positive interactions with Ellie), he does some questionable things (the first game’s ending) and he apparently did a lot of straight up evil things (him and Tommy killing survivors after the outbreak). It’s the same with Ellie, Abby and nearly every other character in the game. The games are pretty explicit in supporting the notion that people are people and that we all possess the ability to do good or bad things. Owen is actually another good, albeit less extreme example. He’s someone that’s shown to be a pretty decent person for the most part, but he cheats on his pregnant girlfriend and seems absolutely willing to kick her to the curb if Abby gives him the go ahead.

    • The various actors all gave pretty good performances, or at the very least no one stood out negatively for me. Some of them didn’t get a real chance to shine in a way they probably deserved, but they did well with they got. Ashley Johnson does an incredible job with Ellie yet again. While the ‘big’ moments are the obvious standouts, the subtle differences between her younger and older Ellie was something that stood out to me.

    • It really is an incredibly impressive game from a technical standpoint (I think even people who weren’t fond of the game seem to agree with that). The lighting in particular was way beyond what most other games even attempt to do.

    • As much as I try to play stealthily in these games, the game is probably at its most fun when you’re forced in to a big combat encounter.

    • I would’ve liked a bit more on the WLF & Seraphites. The WLF probably come off better in terms of content, but I feel like they could’ve done more with Isaac. In regards to the Scars, I think we could’ve done with actually seeing or having some sort of interaction with the Elders. I get that that the game isn’t really about their conflict, rather than what it symbolises, but a little more fleshing out wouldn’t have hurt.

    • Some of the best story moments actually come through the collectibles notes you can find. They did it in the first game with Ish (?) but they really expanded upon it in this one. Boris’ story in Hillcrest (which is also interestingly your first encounter with a stalker, even though they don’t call it out), the WLF deserters, the husband and wife in Day 2, Gray’s story in Day 3. The multi-part stories sadly seem to die off once you switch over to Abby, but there was still some good one-off’s

    • I loved some of the smaller touches and attention to detail they put in like with Abby hyperventilating and the camera zooming when you look down from a height, nails getting longer & dirtier as the days progress, characters reacting physically if you stand under pouring water etc.

    • I’ve played plenty of violent games, and games that are significantly more gory than this game, but I don’t think I’ve ever winced or cringed so much at violence than during my playthrough of this. Hearing death gurgles as blood comes spurting out peoples mouth, seeing Ellie pin an infected against the wall then slicing its throat, seeing the blood splatter and bits of brain from a headshot against a surface, the mess headshots and melee weapons make of peoples faces, the scene with Yara’s arm being broken (that was probably the worst, even if I had already seen it in a trailer) and the fight with the big Scar at the of Haven where part of face his jaw is hanging loose.

    • Sort of following on from the last point, but I hated killing dogs in this game. The whimpering and whining when you killer their handler and the yelp when you actually kill them were awful. The low key worst part of playing Abby’s story is when you get to know Alice & Bear.

    • Day 2 of Seattle for both Ellie & Abby were probably my favourite sections of the game. Ellie’s journey to the hospital and Abby traversing the hotel were particular highlights.

    • The underground section with the flares in Day 1 and Abby & Lev trying to escape a burning Haven both deserve a shout out as well. They were probably some of the most visually impressive moments for me (and they were pretty fun to boot).

    • I liked how you could see the sky bridge/collapsed crane throughout most of the game. I was wondering if they were ever going to do anything with it, so it was a cool little moment when they eventually did.

    • The way these games have a tendency to skip over large distances bugs me. In the first game Joel & Ellie travel from the Pittsburgh suburbs to Wyoming with apparently nothing of interest happening. In this game, Ellie & Dina travelling to Seattle was skipped (this one probably should’ve stayed in), Ellie getting back from the hospital was glossed over (although you could argue that’s tied in with her basically being in shock), Ellie, Dina & Tommy’s journey back to Jackson. Ellie literally travels from Jackson to Santa Barbara (having some cool moments according to her journal) and we don’t see any of it. I get why we don’t need to see everything, and it’s generally done in service of pacing, but it sometimes feels a bit odd.

    • I liked the major side characters for the most part, although some of them needed a bit more screen time. Dina starts off likeable enough, but they unfortunately sideline her pretty early on and we don’t get too much after that. Jesse was an interesting subversion in that he’s just a straight up decent person. Yara has a decent little story (it’s also interesting that her and Jesse go out in similar ways). Lev was probably my favourite of the bunch, and has the most interesting/developed arc.

    • The Salt Late crew were a bit mixed. Owen gets a nice little arc and Mel gets some development due to her connection to it. Manny and Nora (particularly the latter) really drive home the point that people can be multifaceted, but I would’ve like for them to get a bit more. Jordan sort of felt like he existed as a warning for what Abby could become, but he gets offed pretty quickly and then he dosen’t really have any meaningful presence in Abby’s story.


    • Infected were greatly improved across the board:

      • Stalkers were suitably creepy (although I absolutely hate fighting them) and I appreciate that they tried to make them a bit more visually interesting.

      • Bloaters went from being one of the worst parts of the first game to some of the best parts of this game.

      • Clickers didn’t really need changing so they continue to be fine. Not going to lie though, the first time I noticed that some of them were fully nude, boaby and all, it definitely took me out of the game for a minute.

      • Shamblers were nice addition and appropriately disgusting. The fact that they show up in California was a bit weird though. The game seems to suggest that they’re a mutation brought on by Seattle’s climate, so it’s strange to see them in a place that’s basically the complete opposite. I guess you could put it down to the earlier note being wrong.

      • The Rat King (I still don’t get why it’s called that?) was one of the standout moments of the game. I love how you can sort of guess what it looks like before you actually see it ( the warped railings, the multiple handprints on the door frame). The scene where it’s chasing Abby was tense as *, I don’t think I’ve ever mashed a button as quickly as I did trying to open the door. The actual fight was fun as well, like a bloater on steroids.


    • Were migratory hordes of infected a thing in the first game? I honestly don’t recall them ever talking about anything like that. Like I get that some of the infected will wander, but full blown hordes feels a bit Days Gone-ish.


    • I know people have complained in the past about Naughty Dog telegraphing combat encounters by having a bunch of waste high walls when you enter a new area, but it’s never really been something that bothered me. However, the backstage of the theatre is so blatantly designed as a combat/stealth area that I actually found it a bit distracting. While on one hand I don’t think it was too surprising that something was going to go down there at some point, it’s weird that they make it so overt (the window that Abby eventually uses to sneak in was another one).

    • The end game section in California was a great change of scenery, a bit of a shame we didn’t get to spend some more time there. I hope we can get something similar in a future game.


    • I liked the little nods to Left Behind when Dina and Ellie visit the fancy dress shop, and again in the arcade.

    • I thought it was a clever little moment when you realise that Owen died in the same way he apparently killed Danny.

    • The PlayStation Vita turning up in the game was a funny little bit. I’m a bit surprised they used Hotline Miami (2?) instead of a first-party game. Uncharted: Golden Abyss got snubbed.



    The Future:


    I think Naughty Dog are probably going to do a a new IP next, but I fully expect The Last of Us: Part 3 to round off the next gen.


    I can’t see it not featuring Ellie in some capacity (I think they’ve been pretty upfront that the series is basically her story) and while I think Abby & Lev don’t necessarily need to return, I’d be surprised if they didn’t. The obvious follow up is Ellie’s journey to find her new purpose, but there’s also some smaller threads (i.e. her mum) that they could potentially address.


    I don’t think I’ve ever been right with a Naughty Dog prediction (Joel dying aside, but that’s a bit different) so this will probably be wrong but my Mystic Meg prediction is this:


    As much as this game hammered home the point that Joel effectively doomed everyone and it essentially ends with Ellie herself moving on from the hospital incident, I still believe the third game is going to circle back around to the vaccine. I think we’ll get another time skip (probably 5-10 years, but I could see something more substantial) and it starts with the Catalina Island Fireflies finding someone else who can do the surgery/produce a vaccine. Lev will be the main playable character (maybe with Abby tagging along) as he goes on a cross country search for Ellie (allowing them to check in with Jackson and potentially other returning areas/groups along the way). Ellie will also be playable, but her sections will be more akin to flashbacks where we see some of the pivotal moments in her wanderings post Part 2.
     
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  6. Gyp Rosetti Gold Member

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    Mate in work is loaning me this as he’s completed it, so going to try and batter through it next week.
     
  7. dbhoy72

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    Been enjoying this, story seems alright so far.

    Not sure about the flashbacks though, just trying to fatten out the story, but not sure if it's actually got a bearing on the actual game though. I actually enjoyed the Dinosaur museum but could have probably got the same story with just a cutscene with them talking and maybe add to the game itself.

    Prefer when I have another person with me though, although them standing in plain view and not being spotted by things is a tad ubsurd, lol.
     
  8. Gundog Gold Member Gold Member

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    Trying to do this without spoilers but there probably is some, the character everybody hates I actually liked most. The character everybody knows and loves I ended up hating and by the epilogue I really did not want to finish her quest, some people just don't know when to call it quits.
     
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  9. dbhoy72

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    Was really good, but the story was a bit *.

    You couldn't tell when it was going to end, it was a huge mission to get to Abby, them nah never mind, then wait I think I'll try again.

    Didnt really see the need for playing as Abby too, that could have been sorted with brief cutscenes.

    A bit more with Joel and Ellie would have been good.
     
  10. Artorias

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    That was some write up Hehe. See it won game of the year and I am not surprised. I haven't thought about a game as much, especially so long after it. I don't think they'll do another but would like them to.

    Just recently swept through the last bits to get the platinum and played with the "slow mo when aiming" the whole time. The amount of detail is incredible and you see even more with that mode enabled.
     
  11. paulo123

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    20 quid in tesco just now, just picked it up.
     
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  12. Valhalla Thus spoke Batistuta.

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    Still can’t get over how bad they * this up while ruining potential future stories.
     
  13. Officer Doofy Come to me, human man Gold Member

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    Laughable it won GOTY.

    The gaming equivalent of season 8 of Game of Thrones.
     
  14. We named the dog Indiana Gold Member Gold Member

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    Gameplay was decent enough but nothing that groundbreaking but story was utterly *.
     
  15. dbhoy72

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    Personally thought Ghost of Tsushima was better, but didn't think there was anything out there that was anything special.

    I'm guessing the later releases of the year don't count.
     
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  16. Artorias

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    You'll love it, if you have the intelligence for a bleak, complex and gripping story...
     
  17. Valhalla Thus spoke Batistuta.

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    What :giggle1:?
     
  18. Artorias

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    I was hoping for a bite on the insinuation you had to be intelligent to enjoy it tbh, which is obviously just a joke. Storywise, I did think there was a pretty complex set of relationships and interactions. Some would say convoluted though.
     
  19. Valhalla Thus spoke Batistuta.

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    What was complex about it?

    I’d say if anything the game thought it was smarter than it actually was in all honesty.
     
  20. Officer Doofy Come to me, human man Gold Member

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    Aye, Ghost of Tsushima was far superior for me.

    Agree that there probably wasn’t anything groundbreaking this year. Albeit GoT is one of my favourites on the PS4 since it launched.