Have We Messed Up

The bulk of that squad achieved 2x UCL last 16 and played group stages last season. The drop isnt all just the quality of the squad.

I havent given up but if Mowbray starts getting the best out of the players, we do stand a chance.

 

We dont Naka who i think we really miss. I take your point abouthe the sqaud, but we are trying to play the game in an entertaining way, the players are finding it difficult. If we dont start we will never get there, there will be a transitional phase even for current squad in how to play.

I have seen enough already to know that it is better and if others cannot see this they canny see.

Lets think how good it will be when we get a couple of players in, we will be dynamite, of that i have no doubt.

 

I know it was Killie, but was the performance at the weekend not the best for a while?

 

It was be a long way for me.

 

The game against Kilmarnock was our best yet and we didn't play a 4-4-1-1, the only reason we played that formation is because TM realised McDonald and Samaras can't play together. Now that fortune is back I think we will start to rapidly improve and keep with our traditional 4-4-2.

 

yes but we need to build on that now...

Ive heard Mowbray talking about the Wenger/Arsenal model...

I think its a good model to follow for us...

Wenger took over a team that was reasonably successful under George Graham...they played a defensive game and got results...

Wenger came in and brought quality attacking players to the team without breaking the bank, built a fantastic youth policy that feeds into the first team year after year....their success in the league and in Europe year after year has given him some money to add great players like Vermaelan,Arshavin, Rosicky....


Mowbray has taken over a team that was reasonably succesful under Strachan.....Lets build on it....lets have a good youth structure feeding quality into the first team....lets add quality players without breaking the bank...... Then lets talk about big name signings.

its not going to happen over night....but lets move the club forward.


We may never achieve the same kind of quality squad in the SPL, but we can build a really good team....

Further success in Europe will mean Celtic attracts some good players....

My biggest issue with Strachan was he didnt build on his success in the Champions league...getting to the last 16 was awesome....the club could have attracted some good quality players from accross Europe and South America....

but the bulk of our signings were average players from the SPL and England that kept the squad ticking over and our standard dropped last year.


The squad didnt improve....


The good quality players in England and the SPL are always over-priced. We should have looked elsewhere to improve the team.

I dont think we needed mega bucks to improve the squad....we could have a smaller squad with more quality in it.

Meaning a lower wage bill.

Meaning more opportunities to add quality.



I think Strachan messed up not building on his success, I think Mowbray can put it right....

 

I stopped reading your post there

We've already started down this road since Lennoxtown opened but the results of it wont be seen in the short term.

I think the first player roll off this 'production line' will be Islam Feruz as long as he keeps up his good attitude, looks after himself and avoids injury. He's only 14 but playing u17 for Scotland and is a stand out at that level which is very impressive.

I do agree, and I've said it a few times that the scouting network isnt good enough for what Celtic want to achieve and they've only started to address this very recently so that will take time to produce good end results.

I notice the last line of your post,

I dont think its a case of Strachan messing up but more of a case that we are unable to find better quality within our financial constraints and that issue goes back to poor scouting.

e.g. How much did we spend on Donati, Gravesen & Jarosik and they didnt improve the squad considering the cost.

I think that happened because of poor scouting. I think Mowbray will get more right but it will be down to the club improving its own resources.

 

I think Donati showed at the start of the year what he could have improved the squad, had the team gone out to play in the way Mowbray wants. He didnt fit in under Strachans system. So it could be said Strachan was wrong to spend money on him.

I think there is always a gamble with any player we sign...whether they will proove a good purchase or not.

I agree we are going down the right road, I wouldnt like to see it messed up by concentrating on getting instant results with the current squad.

I think the likes of Donati, Gavesen and Jarosik not improving the team is one of the reasons why Strachan didnt get a lot of cash to spend. Too many of his signings proved to be money mis-spent. Thats why I say he messed up. He had some money , he didnt spend it wisely, so he didnt get anymore money.

If more of his signings improved the team , we might have had more success and he would have had more money.

It would be interesting to see a list of all Strachans signings and rate them a success or failure. I doubt you would get 50% success rate....I think the blame lies with Strachan even if the players came through poor scouting...he was the manager he should have been making the call...he messed up.

 

Donati was after a move, thats the only reason he upped his performances and even at that he was still blowing hot and cold.

Also, I dont think it was a case of not getting money but more the point that we couldnt find affordable targets that would improve the squad. According to the AGM, we inquired about buying Bellamy and he wanted £65k a week, i remember him coming out in the press and saying it too. And the likes of Jose Enrique and Ched Evans looking for wages similar to Balde werent agreed with either.

I think Strachan knowingly went after risky signings like Gravesen, Donati & Jarosik because there was poor alternatives. I'm sure the board would have been aware of shortcomings in the scouting network as MON's era was blighted by the clubs inability to find good players cheap. We never had a good scouting network imo and relied heavily on the managers contacts to find players which is bad practice

 

The way I see it we're top of the league without really clicking into gear yet, so I really dont see any alarm bells ringing as yet.

Euro results have been poor, but we had a ridiculous draw in the CL and didn't exactly get a favourable draw in the Europa League either.

Remember WGS's first crack at Europe?

 

hmmm....I see your point.

but Strachan claims on the quality of the squad indicate to me he thought he bought well
Gordon Strachan defends quality of squad he left at Celtic | Football | guardian.co.uk

The players you talk about there are ones from England who are looking at ridiculous wages because the English clubs are throwing around money like there's no tomorrow.

Celtic will never match the wages of these clubs so, I agree our scouting network was poor. We shouldnt even have scouts in England buying for the first team....there are too many clubs competing for any half decent player. Meaning the clubs up the price and the player ups his wage demands. Plus everyone knows about any decent player....any scouts in England should be scouting for the youths.

Not to harp on about the gunners, but they have a wage structure and dont break it. We need the same....because signing a player is a gamble, allowing high wages in the SPL could kill us, especially if its for a flop who sits on the bench.

We wouldnt have money to spend on scouting, youth structure or the first team.

 

They create lots of chances most games bit of dodgy defending we look a much better team than last year. Look what he did when Mogga was at WBA changed the whole squad which is what he will do with us. We are one good goalscorer away from crushing the league

 

I think he has better starting point at Celtic than he had at WBA....i.e. we still have good players, dont need to drop the lot.

I think we will have a whole new defence this time next year though and maybe two or three in midfield and attack,

 

He thought well of them because he achieved well with them.

The likes of Ramsey(€5M), Adebayour (€6M), Eboue(€2M), van Persie(€3M), Diaby(€3M), Eduardo(€8M), Senderos(€3M), Walcott (€10M), Fabianski(€3M), Song(€1M) werent that cheap. Yes obviously they are talented players but Arsenal spend on unknown young players isnt buttons and the have the EPL to lure these talents with. We have the SPL!!!

Yes we could operate on a lower scale to that financially but would we be able to attract the quality given the less money and league to attract it with? Its going to be difficult for Celtic replicate anywhere near the success that Arsenal have with it and if our policy doesnt work because of a league that talented & ambitious young players wont consider the SPL then the blame game gets another go!

There are many clubs in other leagues years ahead of Celtic in the feeder club format. We are a dinosaur when it comes to youth development methods and I dont think we have the expertise to develop raw talent, if we buy it, like Arsenal can. The jury is still out on McCart & Park to produce results for Celtic.

 

Yeah your right, Arsenal do spend a good bit of cash, but a lot of money they have spent after generating a load of cash from selling players...

I thought he built the first team pretty cheap but
I checked it out and I was wrong .
Henry cost 10mill, viera 3.5 , overmars 5.5, Petit 2.5 ...which wasnt cheap especially since its nearly 10 years ago

Building a great team without the money is probably wishful thinking on my part....

3million for van persie and one million for song is good business though , they could get 25million for the two now. Didnt they get 30 for Adebayor. Walcott is probably the only one not worth more now.


If we sold a couple players and got in around 7 million. Buy in a few more and get a couple good quality, who end up being worth 7million each we will be doing good.....

So back to the topic of the thread....we messed up, I think, in the transfer market....who is now worth more than we paid for them....

Scott McDonald (750k)

maybe Scott Brown (4.4mill),


On the field we are going in the right direction now...

in the transfer market its too early to judge Mowbray....

 

am not gonna even try to compare the present day team with the lisbon lions but wot i will say is they were an underachieving team who when the correct manager came in he made those players feel ten feet tall and they would go through brick walls for him, he made a few additions to the squad and basically played players in thier natural positions ,he made them start to believe in themselves .

to get to my point we have a talented squad who need to believe in themselves and with some additions to the team they could click and become a force ,its not always about money,the right man at the helm is worth more than any 20 30 40 or even 50 million pound player ,and another small point ,if you read the larsson interview on the papers he told of his absoloute love for the club and how it made him the man and player he is and that he owed it all to us, that tells you when you believe in the players they go that extra yard and when they are happy and looked after their heads will mostly not be turned by other offers like our king. a fairytale maybe but sometimes a little can go a long way.