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Feminism/Equal rights

Discussion in 'TalkCeltic Pub' started by Captain Brown, Jul 18, 2017.

Discuss Feminism/Equal rights in the TalkCeltic Pub area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. trip2themoon Concomitant Allez-Vous?

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    I've heard feminists argue that the world would be a more peaceful place if all the world's presidents and prime ministers were female. TBH I believe the opposite, I believe the world would be more dangerous place. Women in large groups are often bitchy and condescending to each other and get * off with each other over petty trivialities. "I'm going to nuke her country, she had the same outfit on as me at last year's G20 summit" or "I'm going to nuke her country because she gave me a dirty look at last year's G20 summit". Men are infinitely more reasonable and compromising than woman and are willing to seek out the option that benefits both whereas women often take the huff when they don't get their own way.
     
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  2. Momo Sylla

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    Aye, how many women do you see collecting * portaloos etc.
     
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  3. Mince.Charming

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    We always let the woman carry the coffins at family funerals.
     
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  4. trip2themoon Concomitant Allez-Vous?

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    I think the feminists that say they don't need men are the funniest. We only slaughter their meat, treat their sewage, drill and refine the oil that propels their vehicles, build their dwellings, invent the mobile phones they can't keep out of their hands for five minutes. Apart from that yeah, who needs men?

    The truth is most feminists want equal earnings for cushier jobs. Try getting a feminist to work on an abattoir's kill floor or in a sewage treatment plant and it would be "eeewww, that's icky". We'd all love to be earning over £50,000 a year for working in a nice warm office in the middle of January. I'd love to see one of them on a building site when it's -5 outside.
     
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  5. Momo Sylla

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    Thing is if you point that out to them you're an ignorant sexist pig. I know the odd female engineer etc but they are without a doubt rare in those male dominated industries. They completely ignore the fact that women were hugely involved in these things during the war and use the excuse that they'd be made to feel uncomfortable. I wonder why they didn't continue to do those types of jobs. For whatever reason women just aren't as interested in STEM industries as men, but it has nothing to do with sexism.
     
  6. Mr. Fawlty

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    We're more likely to see the men drop back to 3 than the ladies go up to 5.

    As for pay, on the surface it seems rather patronising and sexist for the men's slams to be effectively subsidising the women's ones when it comes to prize money.

    There's a reason Lebron James and co make a cuntload more than their WNBA equivalents: * all people watch ladies basketball. If female basketballers were physically capable of replicating the athletic feats seen in the men's game I'm sure the situation would be different.
     
  7. daschoo

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    I doubt there's anyone who doesn't agree these days that two people doing the same job should have the same pay and that two people going for the same job/promotion should be judged on their merits not their gender.
    A few gripes I do have though are quotas, sports and ridiculous arguments on entertainment.

    If a male is an only marginally better or equal candidate for a job/promotion than a female then how is it not sexist to give her the job in the name of diversity and positive discrimination?

    Tennis is a good example though I don't think the 5/3 sets really makes a big difference. The prize money is based off what they are bringing in to the sport. I've also seen gripes that women footballers should be paid the same as their male counterparts as they do the same job. No attempt to standardise wages in the sport or suggest that because for example Ruben Loftus Cheek does the same job as Eden Hazard he should earn the same pay just a quick nobody watches it because men made the decision years ago not to promote and broadcast it so women should be paid the same as men.

    Also I read an article on the BBC site talking about Doctor Who. Personally I would have left the doctor as a male but it's a regenerating alien and they'd laid the groundwork in the script over the last few years so in the context of the show it made sense. It then went on to talk about the positive message it sends to young girls and how we have seen an all female ghostbusters, wonder woman and potentially the next Bond could be a woman. The idea of a female James Bond is a farce. Even in the article raising that as the next target it talks about a hugely successful action film with a female lead that was actually written that way. I don't understand the desire to rewrite existing films/TV with female (the same could be said for minority) leads. If you don't think there's a strong female role model in a certain genre surely the way to deal with that is to write one not change an existing male character?
     
  8. cidermaster Gold Member Gold Member

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    Equal rights for who,for the lefty do gooders,for the Feminists who actually annoy fellow women more than men,who? It should be a people thing,who ever his best for whatever position or action that is needed.
    Look at Gay marriage,i have nothing against that,but there is a problem here as at first they have Civil Partnerships,now they have both while men and Women who marry just have the one.All this bullshit like at the BBC on 2 thirds of the people there that earn more than £150,000 a year are men,so what,in the future it may be 54/46 or 47/53,you cannot just do a * lefty 50/50 on everything.
    As for Grand Slam Tennis it is beyond a joke that men and Women are paid the same,imagine if you worked for a big company and all the men and women were on the same wage,but the women worked only 28 hours a week and the men 40,that is what it is right.
    Oh an another thing in films and TV it is the norm across the board for women to kick men in between the legs or grabbed their balls,you do not see men kick women in between the legs,think about it.
    I believe it is a people thing,good people thing,a fine example are Doctors and Nurses or indeed Vets,i do not care what gender they are i just believe the best should get those jobs.
     
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  9. The IRA

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    There's serious talk about a female James Bond. :giggle1:

    Google it.

    I actually want them to do it.

    I love it when feminist movies fail spectacularly.
     
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  10. Mr. Slippyfist

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    "The names Bond, Jenny Bond...."




    [​IMG]
     
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  11. cidermaster Gold Member Gold Member

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    They are also doing a Lady General
    Well James Bond always takes his top off several times each movie,so they are the rules!
     
  12. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    Taken over here so we don't take the other thread off topic.

    Why not?

    If the rational majority agree that any and all discrimination is wrong then I don't see why Egalitarianism isn't achievable.

    You can agree that the lack of female representation as CEOs in companies is wrong and something should be done about that AND that males get disproportionately higher prison sentences for comparative crimes and something should be done about it. That's rational.


    Respectfully, you've clearly miscomprehended. She makes no reference that it is "some MRAs", there is no distinction at any point in her article. Rather her inference is that it's them all:

    "But there's a special breed of person known as a Men's Rights Activist (or MRA) who likes to go one step further. These people like to talk about something called 'misandry', which translates to the not-
    technically-made-up-but-completely-powerless 'hatred of men'. MRAs will have you believe that misandry is:

    ...Yes, the curious logic of the MRA dictates that feminism and the fight for women's liberation has actually resulted in equal and opposite systemic harm being done to men

    ...The spurious logic of MRAs extends even to blaming women for issues quite demonstrably connected to patriarchal expectations of men, such as the pressure to be ambitious, to succeed financially, to bury their emotions deeply and to always conform to the traditional model of the stoic, unfeminine man."

    Which just furthers my point above. She feels like feminists have issues worth addressing (which they do) but is dismissing straight out of hand that MRAs (as she puts it) have legitimate issues themselves.

    She uses sneering adjectives such as "frothing, faceless MRAs". People like this should be a million miles away from sensible debate about equality. Everything is about one-upmanship rather than understanding.
     
  13. cidermaster Gold Member Gold Member

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    * * I forgot about that Rant of mine,to be fair in all fairness I was in a Fine Cork Pub with Father Jack:56:
     
  14. Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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    Because groups of people are fuelled by self interest, see the recent pandemic as an example. Perhaps I'm being pessimistic.

    Moreover, it can be difficult to focus on all discrimination simultaneously. Separate groups focusing on issues that affect them most is natural, and if you have large groups of people focusing on a wide range of issues simultaneously, it is more likely to be difficult to achieve progress. As more inequalities are hopefully eradicated in society, more people will be able to unite under a proposed egalitarian banner.
    Without going on too much of a tangent, I agree with what you've said, but as things stand we all have levels of conscious and unconscious bias, which will always have an impact on equality. I'm sure we're in agreement that as a society we should be striving to attain as equal a society as possible. I refer back to my point about focus too.


    Some of the trolls aren't MRA's, I haven't miscomprehended anything.
    In that same article, she mentions how she believes that men are harmed by the patriarchy, so it's not true to state she dismisses that men have issues. By specifying MRAs, she's referring to a rather nasty group of online trolls whom she receives abuse from fairly often, and as said, they are mostly hidden by the anonymity of the internet. I don't think it's unfair to refer to them as frothing or faceless, when a quick perusal online will show exactly that.

    "Cast even a cursory look over arguments between MRAs and feminists and you'll be treated to a laundry list of complaints - some genuine and some imagined - intended to demonstrate the heinous oppression apparently inflicted on men today."

    Seems clear to me that she recognises that there are genuine issues for men, as well as women.

    As I said in the other thread, I don't know a lot about this woman, and I haven't agreed with everything she's said in the little I've read about her today, but I'm not going to dismiss her points straight out of hand (not saying you have) just because she comes across as an aggressive feminist. It's an interesting discussion, regardless.
     
  15. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    In our current system I agree with you, it's designed to pit people against each other, cause division and by extension grievance. If we're striving for a more equitable society then Egalitarianism is the way.

    Feminism - despite it's protestations - isn't about gender equality, if it was then it would equally be campaigning against the likes of disproportionate prison sentences, child access and suicide rates.

    My problems with widespread self-interest groups focussing solely on issues that affect them is that priority then comes down to who shouts the loudest. With 52% of the population being female, around 35 million people in the UK, that means they have a huge voice in comparison to let's say the Jewish UK population at 250,000 or Roma Gypsies at 200,000. The latter 2 may feel they are being discriminated but by virtue of having less of a platform to voice it, their potentially legitimate grievances might go unheard.

    Egalitarianism is more about cooperation to improve society gradually rather than trying to prioritise competing aims of these activist groups.

    Fair enough mate, that's your prerogative but I think it's duplicitous to criticise Trump for calling Covid-19 a 'Chinese Virus' while laughing off a woman saying "All men must die" and "I bathe in male tears". She can dress it up as satire but both are discriminatory for me and unhelpful in trying to bring about a better society.

    Would you accept the satire reasoning if you seen a Skinhead Hun walking about with an 'i bathe in Muslim tears' t-shirt?
     
  16. Gyp Rosetti Gold Member

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    There are women in my workplace who are paid the same as me or more than me but will never do the heavy manual lifting jobs I do, is this fair seeing as I can already do every job on the plant but they can’t?
     
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  17. cidermaster Gold Member Gold Member

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    There are good people and there are bad people.
    There are Children that need help.
    There are people that need help.
    There are Rich people and poor people and average people.

    Far More People are good than bad. But still too many are bad.

    The Far More Good People Much prefer to love than hate. But still too many people hate.

    I love Good People.And there are plenty of them.

    I am a Peopleist:49:
     
  18. Clint Eastwood The Good Bad and Ugly of TC

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    I literally thought the same thing when I saw this thread bumped. I'm always asked to lift stuff by women at work. It's basically a given that I can lift stuff they can't and I'm expected to do it for them. Yet we earn the same wages. Doesn't sound "equal" to me. Like in your plant in the factory I work in there's job that I'm well capable of doing that women aren't, yet I'm pretty much expected to be able to do any job on the factory floor. There are jobs women aren't expected to do because they're not capable of doing them, or certainly not to the standard or speed that a man can. It's like an unspoken thing, everyone on the floor earns the same and has the same title but there's a limit to the jobs women can do.

    I think we can all agree is that people should not be discriminated against based of their gender, sexuality, religious beliefs, race or nationality when applying for a job or anything like that but let's not pretend that men and women are the exact same when they're not. Men can do stuff that women can't, women are suited to certain things more than men. You can't deny biology just to ensure you don't offend someone. There's a whole host of jobs and things that both men and women are pretty much equally capable of doing but there are jobs where that just isn't the reality no matter how much some people choose to ignore that.
     
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  19. Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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    I’d be confident in assuming there are plenty of feminists who are campaigning against such issues.
    Depends largely on the environment, for me. I don’t know how you’d quantify priority over a huge range of separate issues, and there will inevitably be bias, but in general I find that reasonable people tend to accept a solid argument when presented with enough evidence in favour of it.
    Fair point, a deeper pool of potential activists is always going to provide some advantage.
    Even under the banner of egalitarianism, you will find some competing aims. I just think it’s natural that groups of people will prioritise certain aims over others, the same way students prioritise different political policies from people in their 60’s.

    I don’t see a conflict, given the wider context of both. Trump has a history of racism over decades, has a far wider audience and is far more influential. While this particular woman receives abuse and accusations of misandry on an almost daily basis. I don’t think it’s unfair of her to turn it into satire, nor do I think she truly believes the men hating statements. She explains her reasons behind it, Trump doesn’t. I don’t think they’re comparable.
    Don’t see this as a logical comparison. There isn’t a history of Muslims abusing huns, therefore there’d be no grounds to turn it into satire.
     
  20. Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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    Is it a woman’s fault she’s not as strong as you? You wouldn’t expect someone in a wheelchair to do the same manual lifting as an able bodied person, so why should a woman be disadvantaged because in general, men have a biological advantage.