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Director of Football - Do we want one?

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by .Zander., Feb 13, 2021.

Discuss Director of Football - Do we want one? in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. .Zander. Gold Member Gold Member

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    Sorry if there is already a similar thread but I thought it worth discussing the pros and cons of having a DoF and whether its something football clubs truly benefit from.

    One one hand it maybe puts recruitment in more capable hands than a CEO, but in some instances it seems to take power away from the manager.

    What do we think? I'd like to hear genuine opinions, especially from those more well-versed on the role.
     
  2. faw cough Gold Member Gold Member

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    First of all " Director of Football ".
    That insinuates there is someone higher than the Manager - directing football.

    Without sounding all politically correct here , but that term DOF needs to go .
     
  3. LectersLuncheon

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    Massive NO from me.

    Not because I think it's an entirley bad idea, just because we look like we could * up a cup of coffee right now.
    I would steer clear until the choice is a clear one and not one motivated by pulling one over on the fans.

    People look to clubs like Man City or Liverpool, and go, yay, we need one if them boys. Or to lesser extent Salzburg or Lille.

    These kinds of DoF are diamonds in the rough. With contacts all over Europe and placed scouting and contact networks that make the CIA look like the * UDA.

    16 clubs in the EPL have a DoF and more than half of that have made an * of it, Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham et al.

    Historically, at Celtic, directors of football have been a complete * disaster. We lost Wim Jansen to Jock Browns bullshit (although he was billed as a GM) and that rat * Dalglish sued us after me made an * of it too.

    I have no idea who this Fergal bloke is, suffice to say he's an unofficial parole officer for Man City loanees and used to work for Nike.
    Also... in fine Celtic tradition, it smacks of more "jobs for the Bhoys". He has worked with both Lennon and MON... oh, and isn't Pete's son a scout manager for Man City too? Shock * horror.

    That being said... the bloke does SEEM to have a decent reputation on the football side if things.
    But if he's coming in to facilitate the status quo he can get Tae *.
     
  4. honda

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    Always felt like it was a useless layer of management put in place. .
    So the new manager comes in, he wants X player and Y player. He now has to speak to the director of football, who speaks to lawell MK2 who says no anyway. Or the manager gets players thrown at him he doesn't want and won't suit his style. Every decision still needs given the OK higher up anyway. Its a layer of management thats in place to take the blame away from lawel MK2 if anything goes wrong. Get tae *.


    At the same time he probably does alot more than that and I know * all anyway :56:
     
  5. CheGuevara Administrator Administrator

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    We need on and pronto - particularly now.

    The CEO has been acting as a DOF and has been making a complete * of it. A DOF has to come in, be given a team budget and then he does the hiring of a new manager, and the wheeling and dealing regarding contracts.

    The new CEO knows nothing about football and will be concentrating on moving the company forward. A DOF with good credentials is really important.
     
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  6. davidhannah

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    With brexit we need to go British or pay high fees for foreigners. Man City scouting chief will be decent. He'll be just like a cheif scout probably. He'll let Neil Lennon get on with the day job of getting Celtic back to winning ways, such as 1 in a row! Alongside statistician on Football manager Gavin Strachan we will harvest the finest lower league talent Peterborough has to offer.
     
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  7. JC Anton Get yer, hats, scarfs badges & tapes Gold Member

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    100%

    Especially with a new CEO on place who's from outside the footballing world.

    Ideally a DOF would have a longterm plan alongside the CEO and if coaches change then there's not too much upheaval as there's the sustained plan to work to.

    The DoF should really appoint the coach and hopefully this is why we've seen a delay in getting a new coach in place.

    An effective DoF with a mandate to restruct the whole footballing structure is the most important appointment we will make.
     
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  8. Albian Ajeti Gold Member Gold Member

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    Key point in bold there. We had a period of upheaval when Rodgers left us in the lurch, and the eventual result of that was this season. A DOF could help negate this in the future, implementing forward planning along with a transfer and scouting strategy. Ideally he or she would help improve the player development within the club too.
     
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  9. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    Yeah I am sure we made soundbites about how much upheaval was involved and that we wanted to try and structure it so that a manager/head coach couldn't rip the club apart again.

    A director of football and a head coach solves this.

    You'll find 20 years ago, it wasn't as common or accepted. But today, practically all the clubs run with a director of football (or similar with diff name) and then a "head coach" being the traditional manager role.

    Top level guys like klopp, pep, Jose etc will bring their own men with them, but they still ok essence work under a director of football. It's the dof who needs to make sure the manager/head coach fits in and the staff on both parties fits.

    100% we should be going down this route.
    As above, it structures the footballing side of the club (the most important aspect) and stops a CEO/money focused business man from doing what has happened the last 20 years now.

    Dof becomes the middle man as such, and so long as the directives are set in a sensible manner to allow the dof to do his job fully, then we shouldn't have any issues.
    If however the board and the CEO are dictating things and the dof is just another wasted wage for an illusion, then it won't work at all.
    He needs to be given a overall budget for all footballing operations and then allowed to get on with it (very simplified description).

    I believe clubs like Bayern do this whole thing very well. Any new manager/head coach they bring in, truly does come in to the Bayern Munich way of working. Their entire scout, coach, fitness, youth setup, the whole lot is specifically hired and employed by Bayern as Bayern staff, not the managers man.
    The manager is properly researched each time to make sure for a good fit to their structure, he then comes in and is allowed to bring a few key staff to help, but when he leaves, they aren't allowed to take half the staff with them, as they are all Bayern staff - not like with Rodgers bringing in Davies, congerton, toure etc

    Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
     
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  10. Can'tbehooped

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    This is just my understanding I don't know how accurate it actually is.

    The DoF is responsible for much more than just the first team amd is no there to block or overrule the first team manager/head coach. The position exists to oversee all sporting operations from youth to the first team. With this in place its easier to strategies long term and across those areas, coordinate youth strategy and develop pathways to the first team, develop out the scouting network ect without having to worry about the details for the next match for the first team, that's what the manager does meaning the DoF can abstract to other items, it also makes it easier for reports (academy, scouting, physio etc) to report on while allowing the manager to concentrate on playing games.

    The manager will not be absolved of those other responsibilities but will need to dedicate less time to it and focus more on his group of players.

    Outside of the sporting it allows the CEO to work more on the non sporting side, the marketing, business partnerships, communications, finance and all the other stuff that you don't think of like IT, Facilities etc (through their leaders of course, CEO isn't directly running the facilities team)

    Yes you can get to a point of having to many "managers" same as any business but the DoF model can be a very successful one, look at clubs like Ajax or the Red Bull teams,a cohesive strategy right through works.

    It can go wrong as well of course if it's not implemented correctly and it can become a blocker, that all comes down to the recruitment and the buy in of the approach, we will have to see and hope it goes in a good way for us.
     
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  11. The_Bhoy

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    Lenny for DOF, and Kennedy as manager. HH
     
  12. WhitleyCelt

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    Thought we had a head of football operations? Is that not the same thing?

    If not and it stops Hammond buying all these duds. I’m all for it.
     
  13. JC Anton Get yer, hats, scarfs badges & tapes Gold Member

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    Nah, director football has oversight over the whole footballing operation..

    Scouting, youth setup, recruitment, ladies team etc..

    First team coach would coach the first team and be an integeral part of what's needed for the first team and concentrate mostly on that aspect.

    Everyone part of a team but the DoF should really have control of who we employ as First Team coach, so essentially he would be the most important person at the club. The days of a Manager trying to do everything are gone.
     
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  14. Lupis Gold Member Gold Member

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    I don't think that's really how it works. I suspect the DoF and Chief Executive would sit down in the close season and set a budget for the coming season. If a transfer comes within that budget then there is no need to go through the chief exec, the DoF just gets it done. It would only be if something outwith of that, like a higher transfer fee, or something odd about the structuring of the payments, they would need his go ahead. They also act as a buffer between the manager and the chief exec meaning the manager isn't having to report to the board as often, the DoF would do most of that.

    I actually see it a a very positive thing, someone with oversight of the entire football operation, from the youths through to the first team, to make sure everyone is going in the same direction, leaving the chief exec to deal with all the financial side and politicking with governing bodies etc. Whether that pans out in practice we'll need to wait and see.
     
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  15. McGuire Gold Member Gold Member

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    It's time for change and this excites me..

    I think we'll be better off and better run with someone in place who will have a structure. We are actually clueless and have a lack of idea's and direction these day's..

    Positive life after Lawwell? You better believe it..
     
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  16. Dazza

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    Ironically if we had signed Ivan Toney from Peterborough we'd probably be in a better position right now
     
  17. Sgt Neppers*

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    We're using out dated system (manager as figure head), an outdated manager (Lennon), using outdated tactics (best players win you games, no strikers, cm in as cb).

    Lawell fancies himself as manager, he's clueless in that regard.

    We're not utilising youths well at all. In fact they're leaving to go to bigger clubs as the outdated manager/system we use are stagnating their progress, with almost little chance of first team football.

    I welcome the change as its in keeping with modern football, which will in years to come yield better progress all round, for all football depts. With moderate progression in Europe as well. The right people need to be hired though. No cheapness or jobs for the boys type wanted.

    A side note away from DOF, that would allow Dominic Mckay to focus on other things off the field. I.e. media comms with fans for starters.
     
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  18. JamesM09

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    Of course we need a Director of Football. More importantly, we need a good one that will take the club’s footballing department into the modern era.

    Saying, ‘but what if we get a * one’ is a stupid argument.

    The bottom line is if we had a DOF for the last 10 years we wouldn’t have allowed Lawwell to run the club completely unchecked. We wouldn’t have hired Deila and Lennon. We wouldn’t have had anywhere near the amount of wasted signings.

    You’ve got to have someone who’s only focus is the quality of football operations and to challenge the CEO on behalf of the football department. You need continuity between managers.

    I don’t understand how people can’t see it. We’ve just had an unqualified accountant running wild with the club like he owned it, hiring Yes Men in every department that are only loyal to him.

    * that.

    If the new CEO doesn’t bring in a quality DOF right away and begins shaking up the football department right away then he’s just Lawwell mk2 and I guarantee you it will all go * up again. It might improve in the short term but we, as a club, will not progress to where we should be over 5-10 years, just like we’ve wasted the last 10 years.
     
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  19. richie87 Gold Member Gold Member

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    I think this is the only way forward and we should have that person in place before PL hands over the reigns however for this to work you need a person who has three fundamental elements to him/her

    1. a thorough knowledge of football at all levels and the operations of a large successful club
    2. A knowledge of the fan base and the club mission statement both on and off the park
    3. A great communicator not just internally with the club but outward to the fans and media

    we need someone we trust to guide our club in the right direction not only the sporting side of the club on the international community element as well. So one who has vision to take us to a higher level.
     
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  20. stubhoy07 Gold Member Gold Member

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    I really am not sure on this one. Most of my life I have been completely against the DOF idea. But as some have already mentioned there have been examples where it has worked Well elsewhere and it does seem the modern way.

    Where it will benefit us is is less intervention from board members regarding actual football affairs. It might open our eyes to new markets, new systems, different pay structures. I'd like to see us go down a more quality instead of quantity route which I think we have been guilty of for the last 20 year.

    What does alarm me is our past ventures with such ideas didn't proof to be a great success. I know it isn't the same role exactly but is head of recruitment a million miles away from DOF. Congerton was a disaster, Hammond doesn't seem much better to be perfectly honest. The our actual previous DOF jock brown just caused tension everywhere from what i remember, granted I was very young back then. Same with dalglish.

    The football world is very different from the one where we tried with this role. Maybe it is exactly what's needed. On the other hand, some managers might not fancy working with a director of football. So does it also limit our potential candidates. Or has the board decided they'll stick with Lennon if he accepts and incoming director of football?