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Ange Postecoglou

Discussion in 'Ex Players' started by Mr. Slippyfist, May 29, 2021.

Discuss Ange Postecoglou in the Ex Players area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    A lot of similarities to last season under Lennon, when you take kyogo and McGregor out the team.

    Last year McGregor was stiffled by having to cover brown, playing two roles while brown pretended to be a CB and saw most games go by him.
    Édouard had given up the ghost completely and Ajeti looks every bit the sort of striker that needs a strike partner, which we never play with.

    McGregor now gets to dictate games and expresses him self, Kyogo is a quality striker that we badly needed last year.

    If we had those two factors last year, then even Lennon would have faired better, considering we still made a * load of chances last year as well, just no one to finish them and no one to make chances more intense.

    These two being out at the same time is completely * Ange, but at the same time, he is showing that either he hasn't got a clue at this level, or that these players are absolutely refusing to do what he tells them.

    Early few games we saw that intense, high tempo, high press, pass and go, never give up, attitude.
    Now, it's back to laboured passing the ball around and claiming some sort of possession award as if that matters for anything.

    I'm gonna start questioning the backroom staff again now as well, as they all seem to sit there letting Ange stand alone on the touch line and yet again don't offer much of any support to the guy.
    Seems they really are very good coaches at being able to lay the cones out and give out coloured bibs. But give them any sense of responsibility and they are absolutely * useless as well.

    I'll tend to believe Ange "assessed" them and figured they are nice lads with a good work ethic (at that level), but there really isn't much substance to them beyond being a generic coach, that me or you could arguably do after getting your coaching badges.

    Then I'm starting to wonder the reasons behind Dom leaving.
    We know little of him, apart from what he said a few times while here.
    But we know a helluva lot about this board.
    Howe told us to * off after he done his "due diligence", that was before Dom came in.
    Has Dom spent the last couple months here and realised he should have done his own due diligence, or that he figured being the CEO would be enough to change things at this club, but the board are too many of the same mindset, that he was up against it at every turn?

    I do believe Dom and Ange where on the same page. I believe Dom may have tried too much at one time for this board to get on board with. Things like bringing Strachan back is clearly a board thing, not a Dom or Ange thing.

    If that's all been the case, it's a matter of time when Ange walks away as well.
    Because, regardless of his inability to change a game, to have a plan b, to understand the expectations here, he's clearly hampered by this club and we clearly are not set up for a modern coaching approach, which as others have alluded to, even guys like Jose would fail under these circumstances.

    All said and done, Ange seems a good bloke, but we aren't the right club for him.
    He'd be better off at Salzburg or even Girona (if the city group have hands on him) to forge a career in Europe, where these clubs benefit from being "lower" than Celtic that the expectations change, but are well down the path to being clubs ran in a correct way, with actual support to every aspect of the clubs.


    In short, we are a disaster of a club, not fit to giving a guy like Ange a shot.

    Not blowing smoke up his *, we just aren't the sort of club he can thrive in. We are a basket case.

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  2. JC Anton Get yer, hats, scarfs badges & tapes

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    Definitely should be better, 100% but we're definitely a different animal from last season, where even in winning the warning signs were there..

    Where as this season we've looked electric at times, but not without with some real concerns over the calibre of signing especially Starfelt and to a lesser extent McCarthy.. Defensive frailty remains an issue.

    Kyogo, Abada and Jota as front three is definitely an exciting proposition..

    Bring back McGregor, Jullien and Forrest and we definitely look stronger..

    CCV & Jullien could be a potent pairing.

    My worry is even if you bring McGregor back Rogic and Turnbull can't press, we're glaringly short of two CMs..

    Only hope is we don't get any more injuries and can stay in it until we can strengthen again.

    Simply need to give a good account of ourselves on Thurs and then win on Sun..
     
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  3. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    No.

    He's doing the basics by all accounts, as far as fitness and training is concerned.

    The shocking level of fitness and condition that the players were in after Lennon, combined with no recognisable fitness or sports science department (Currie basically the only guy doing any sort of fitness job at the club till now), is what's causing the players to be so * bad, that they pull up during warm up.

    Clubs an honest disaster.
    Too many of our support bought in to this mess and gave the board the one thing they need to keep doing this, their money.

    * sake, we literally sold out the season tickets with no manager employed after that * show last season.

    We get what we deserve after being that * stupid as a support base.

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  4. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    Can't edit this down easily on the phone, but regarding the two CM and pressing issue, you're 100% correct.

    The loss of Christie has just highlighted this so much more. For all the slack I've happily given that greedy *, he at least added a bit of bite and press to the team this season.

    Of all the midfielders we have at the club, for me soro and McGregor along with one of rogic or Turnbull, should be the midfield three.
    Soro, after two years now, is still "raw", but any club worth their salt would have a team of coaches, some specialised, that would be quite literally educating and coaching soro (and others) to be better players and to build on their strengths.



    Soro, by now, should be a player being chased by the likes of Leicester. Instead, two years on, we are still wondering just what kind of player he is going to be.

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  5. cas79

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    If he doesn't start changing things in his system we are going to struggle this season, I do like angeball but if it's not getting the results he will have to adapt or will be sacked and I don't think he will get Lennon time either, for me it's the positional flexibility of the back line that is costing is we need to be more rigid in holding positions midfield up will be ok in that system but defence won't for me

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  6. paulie walnuts Moderator Moderator Gold Member

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    It seems fairly obvious to me that it was Kyogo making all the difference in the first few games, not Ange and his philosophy.
    Take Kyogo out the team and we’re just as bad as last season.
     
  7. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    Doesn't reflect well on him that this is the situation and his system has now been been rumbled in League games by mediocre managers.

    I'd be recalling Robertson from his loan at Crewe as we desperately need a bit more mobility in there.

    Even taking into account injury issues Dundee United were pressing us and keeping us at bay for the most part.

    I would have tried something different for the last 20 mins. Maybe 3 at the back, Montgomery and Ralston as wing backs, Abada up top with Ajeti making runs for knock downs, Jota inside with Turnbull.....I don't know.

    But this notion that a manager's ability to change in-game is rendered impossible because we have a few injuries is worrying.
     
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  8. Bellbhoy Gold Member Gold Member

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    But kyogo fits his philosophy, the players he inherited don't.
     
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  9. bhoy81

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    First off, he has never had big Chris to use, he has signed two centre half’s who played at the weekend.

    Starfelt is his man and he is *, that’s down to Ange.

    So what you are saying is all the teams above us have better players, I mean Dundee Utd didn’t have their best players at the weekend a young inexperienced manager in Tam Courts could put a team together that nearly beat us.

    So Jason Holt is better than the players we currently have available….. utter nonsense.

    Eddy was * before he left, and Christie was a blow but we can’t use them as an excuse at all.

    no natural left winger, Jota is a left winger mate.

    Ange has more than enough quality regarding players he has available to get better results.

    He needs to change his set up, tactics and formation to work with what he has. To simple say no other manager could do better is * horse *.

    Also what the * are you on about Barkas anyway? You do know that Joe Hart has been in goals for * sake.
     
  10. JC Anton Get yer, hats, scarfs badges & tapes

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    I honestly think we've seen enough of Soro to realise he's never the player we need..

    A stupid player, so many needles fouls and passing is woeful too..

    It may be difficult being in and out the team but there's also a reason for that too.
     
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  11. Scotia Gold Member Gold Member

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    His inability to change things will be his undoing ( along with unacceptable results ) , yesterday he swapped the wingers over ( Jota was terrorising his fullback???) ten minutes later he switched them back :39: plays Juranovic at left back out of position and has 2 left backs on the * bench ??? .
     
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  12. JC Anton Get yer, hats, scarfs badges & tapes

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    Kyogo embodies the philosophy tho.

    Can't just criticise Ange needs credit where its due and Kyogo is 100% his signing.. The rest, who knows.
     
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  13. paulie walnuts Moderator Moderator Gold Member

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    He needs to adapt his philosophy then. Dropping points all over the place benefits nobody.
     
  14. JC Anton Get yer, hats, scarfs badges & tapes

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    In mitigation it is more than a few injuries but I do take your point.
     
  15. Can'tbehooped

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    Aye, some of the football we have played has been brilliant and exciting, the turn around from the end of last season into the start of this was good to see it was refreshing but we've gone back from that again.

    Yes the injuries have a large influence on that but so has the slowness of the signings, we were late to make them same as always, we've gone for the cheap option on a good few of them and they've not been able to take part properly. That element I blame more on the board as it was their delays in appointing manager that started the delays and probably them that failed in most of the negotiations. We have a smaller squad when we needed a bigger but even in that were not using some of them.

    Shaw looked good in pre season, certainly good enough to get in to freshen legs in our midfield and certainly now that we only have Soro available on the bench, up top when we have nothing, get own of the B team just to give an option.

    Things I will criticise Ange on, inflexibility, he does not change things on a match day if it's not working, he's slow with suns (not helped by lack of options in bench but still) doesn't adapt to change (Betis game when they scored their first, should have been changing to adapt and definitely after they scored the 2nd)

    We seem less keen to get forward in recent games, not sure if it's a thing or just from the negitivity from not winning and squandering chances but it feels like we are being less direct than we were before, we're also looking sloppier with the ball and giving it away to easily, that's probably attributable to the players on the pitch more than the manager but I'd want to see that getting better not worse and that to me comes down to the coaching.

    We are still wasteful and need to up our goal conversion but that's not a criticism of Ange, just a complaint (but hopefully something he can get worked on,) we missed 3 gilt edged chances yesterday, sadly we could not make up for it.
     
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  16. celtic warrior

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    I mention Barkas because, in the early stages, when there was some semblance of Ange’s style working, we were getting some positive performances and results.

    Our defence has been unsettled and probably had a settled 4 for what? 3 games in a row if we are lucky, injuries and new signings included, it's changing almost every week. It don't matter who the team is, look at Liverpool last season at the early parts of last season, that type of instability almost ruins everything else.

    Is Ajeti better than most strikers in the league? On paper probably, but what has he ever done in practice to actually merit it?

    Is McCarthy better then most available in Scotland? Aye on paper given his CV but people are now coming back round to the idea Soro should be starting (and fans were already split, mostly negatively for Soro)

    Rogic? Aye but he is and always has been unable to maintain a fitness level that can see him play 2 games a week.

    Turnbull, Aye but is apparently, looking the same way as Rogic.

    Bitton? Please * no.

    Abada? Aye and he's proving that with his goals but is still what, 19 and having to deal with adjusting to a different culture.

    Jota? We've got NO ONE else to play there at all and he's showing glimpses of a promises but is also someone who's played roughly 46 games in the previous two seasons before joining us, and the bulk of that are more than likely bench appearances.

    We've not got the squad to rotate or change things up, and not sure exactly what a change om formation offers, what's he gonna do go 4-5-1 and play Soro, McGregor, McCarthy, Abada and Jota?

    Go 3-5-2 and drop Abada for Ralston just so we have better defensive coverage and then play who? Starfelt, Welsh and CCV?

    What exactly could any manager do differently? Nothing, the is no depth to our squad and just because someone sits on the celtic bench or wears a celtic shirt does not automatically make them better than anyone else in the league.

    Does he play deeper, more counter attacking defensive football, given we supposedly should have enough to get results? Play more route one football to Ajeti? How exactly is Ange supposed to get anything more out this threadbare squad?

    It's all when and good, claiming with the better players, but without the squad to rotate and keeps these guys fresh, we are going to see guys like Rogic and Turnbull be over played, guys like Ajeti start up top because there is no other * available.

    Abada be over played because every other * is injured.

    Jota be overplayed later in the season because we've got no other LW.

    Montgomery get played at LB because Taylor and Bolingoli are either * or injured.

    Ralston still starting at RB because Josip is likely injured.

    What the * are people actually expecting?
     
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  17. Leone Naka Fan

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    My biggest gripe with Ange is that he clearly had signings forced on him, yet did not kick up a fuss. McCarthy and Scales were Desmond's signings most certainly.

    The manager decides the playing style, and decides the criteria players must fulfill, in order to be signed to play in that style. Ange doesn't even have his own staff, nevermind players (minus Kyogo). But he should have smashed windows, glasses and doors in order to get his way. Thus far, he maybe grumbled once in public- that's it.
     
  18. Kiro Kompiro

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    Just saw the highlights (miss from 2 yards dead in front and 2-3 posters/ off the cross bar).

    Oh and the injury list.

    On that performance and team selection of course he should be sacked.

    No doubt a new manager will heal the injured with his voice alone, and the coach-killer players will start scoring from 2 yards.

    Within the week and a 2 hour training session too.
     
  19. Kiro Kompiro

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    Wait.. wasn't he quoted as saying that perhaps he hadn't made himself clear enough about his dissatisfaction with respect to the the player recruitment...yes, yes he did:

    https://news.stv.tv/sport/postecoglou-maybe-i-wasnt-clear-enough-on-need-for-signings?top

    And I reckon that public comment might have had something to do with the other bloke Dom? leaving

    Its pretty obvious what the terms under which he was hired were- "Here's what you're getting ie not much, you have all our support...."

    Now as someone like him looking to take the next career step and self-belief in that he can turn a pigs ear into a silk purse, Celtic still has a fair of bit of cachet to it, so he says yes.

    Any higher tier other coach would do........an Eddy Howe.

    This *-can is all on the board.
     
  20. john2061

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    Why do these * on the board do this to every manager and force signings on them .
    They did it to Rogers and looks they will do it to future managers and you wonder why we can't get a high profile name to come to the club .
    I hope Ang can get a result on Thursday and Sunday this week and buy him a bit of time and hopefully by the break we have a few players back in McGregor and kyogo .
    But with the state of our squad there's players getting a game that shouldn't be near the team and that's the problem and this is going to take maybe a couple of transfer windows but will Ang get the time .