1 in 10 Scots 'think sectarianism in football is acceptable'

Yes, in principle i agree with you all...however sometimes common sense should prevail.I mean it wouldnt have killed him to be less conspicuous would it?His * isnt less likely to answer his prayers is he?

Ok, i wont speak on your behalf...or indeed make the fatal mistake of referring to your posts wrongly.What was i thinking?How could i have mistaken "ridicule" for "disappointment"?Well, maybe because i foolishly thought you had read the article and understood it.....yes, thats where i went wrong!Im sure of it.What was i thinking?
Maybe if you had read the article properly, you would not be in such a hurry to blurt out your own personal indignation at the said article.Just incase you missed it, the article was highlighting a poll of 1000 Scottish people....not "Scottish people in football...".There is a big difference.
I keep forgetting how sensitive some little souls are in here sometimes!

PS...i do not need to be elevated to have feelings of sanctity!LOL!

 

Interesting. Having lived in Scotland for almost my whole life, having went to catholic and non-catholic schools, and having a completely mixed protestant Scot/ Catholic Irish background with no affiliation to either religion, I can hand on heart say I have never suffered nor seen anyone suffer from sectarianism. I have seen idiots sing songs at old firm games. But having been the only non-catholic in a catholic class, and having been the only boy from the catholic school in an otherwise "protestant" junior football team for many years, I have never had nor seen any issues.

I am not saying real sectarianism doesnt exist, but it does strike me that when people talk of "sectarianism" it almost always surrounds point scoring between old firm fans.

 

You are far too level headed and objective sometimes!I cant believe you are the same guy that posts in the wrestling thread!!!!!:icon_mrgreen:

 

Yes, in principle i agree with you all...however sometimes common sense should prevail.I mean it wouldnt have killed him to be less conspicuous would it?His * isnt less likely to answer his prayers is he?

Your opinion suggests that we should cower and bow to the philosophy of their hatred rather than stand against it.

 

I am not offended by anything they used to sing.....I am offended that they share the same air as me.

Songs do nothing to change my opinion of them. I personally would rather we were back where we were 25 years ago. I can honestly say that the situation has not changed for the better.

As for sectarianism, we don't have any sectarian songs do we?

 

Well if it suggests that to you, that is not what i meant to suggest.Like i said, i just think considering how poisonous Old Firm games are, a bit of common sense wouldnt be out of place.I personally dont think it would be considered conceding or giving in to them.

 

Just out of curiosity....do you think despising someone for their religious views is more or less acceptable than despising them for their political views?You do despise them i presume?

 

Remember sectarianism is only a problem in Glasgow, it doesn't exist anywhere else in Scotland r

 

I do.

I do see your point but I cant agree.

To turn the other cheek when confronted by hatred and bigotry could be seen as a form of submission and could therefore encourage it at greater levels.

 

if you honestly believe that, then i'm sorry, but as far as i'm concerned your far more deluded than i originally thought. i've read your other posts in this thread and i'm glad i'm not the only one who can see it.

just because you have never experienced sectarianism it does not mean nobody else in scotland has (i would say your one of the few lucky ones). but i honestly believe you have no right to tell people what they should believe. especially those who are targetted every other week with sectarian chants and taunts, as well as experiences such as being refused jobs because of the 'wrong' surname. to deny that scottish society has widespread sectarian problems is burying your head in the sand. once again, you should count yourself lucky you've never been on the end of it, but don't try to tell the rest of us we're exaggerating the problem.

 

I think the point mygirlmaria was making, and I agreed with (please correct me if I am wrong MGM) is that firstly, you cannot pick and choose when you find something offensive because it is sectarian. So many celtic fans cry "sectarianism" when they hear songs they dont like coming from rangers fans, but cant discuss Rangers without using terms like "orange", "huns", "facists", etc. Now I take no offence at any of it really but it isnt just one sided.

Secondly, as I said earlier, I have an Irish sounding surname, went to a catholic high school, and have never in my life suffered any form of setarianism. That isnt denying a problem, that is just a fact. Whether it exists elsewhere and to what extent I do not know as really I can only go on what I see and what people I know go through. And lucky for me my catholic and protestant friends and family dont seem to get oppressed by their opposites either. When I hear of this "widespread sectarian problem" we supposedly have it really makes me wonder if I live in the same country as you!

 

Roamin in the Gloamin?
Go on Home British Soldiers?
Roll Of Honour?

 

There may be a case for RITG but the Roll of Honour and Go on Home aren't sectarian at all.

 

Depends on your perception of the songs, but I personally don't class ROH to be a sectarian song. Reason I included it, I know many people (Celtic fans included) who do.

Also, I think GOHBS is as bad as the famine song.

 

The many that think ROH is sectarian need educated on the meaning of the song.

Go on home and the famine song aren't alike at all though, are they ?

 

GOHBS and TFS are different, however the lyrics of the former can be easily perceived as sectarian.

 

Fair enough, we will have to agree to disagree on that one!

Im not telling people what to believe...or even trying to, i am asking them to not be so biased, or at least to try and see things from both sides, instead of blindly condemning anything that doesnt conform with ones own biased viewpoint.Isnt it possible that people are biased?I personally always try and understand any opposing view from my own.It never fails me.If it sways me in any way, then i have a more balanced view of the subject....if it doesnt, then it reaffirms my own viewpoint.Either way it benefits me.I am well aware of the world around me and have friends from both communities and clubs.I know some people have the odd bad experience of some kind of bias in the work place etc....and that is unfortunate, but i think it is less common than some would have us believe.In fact, i know of one road building firm that "seems" to hire only Catholics...or those with Irish names!
Some people have a huge chip on their shoulder...and wont let it go.I also have friend who is very wealthy and from a socialist background.His father was a socialist and he was too....and he now is worth a fortune.He spends his every waking minute looking for any excuse he can to make some derogatory remark about "the masons".He is obsessed.It hasnt affected his life or his wealth...but in his mind, it is killing him because he see's it as a club he cannot get into!He feels excluded......from what, i have no idea!He already has everything...but it is not enough.
I am probably more than double Sween's age...but i agree with him.It is exaggerated.....im not saying it doesnt happen....but it is exaggerated.

 

what's your problem with those terms? they are not sectarian. the orange order is not a religion, and is itself a sectarian organisation and whose flag is flown regularly at ibrox. and the other terms sum up the rangers support perfectly.

as i've said in previous posts you must be one of the few lucky ones. i must be living in a different country from you. either that or you were away when neil lennon, niall mcginn, paddy mccourt, paul mcbride and members of the scottish parliament recieved live ammunition and bombs in the post. or when neil lennon was attacked at tynecastle, only for the scottish courts to rule in one of the most ridiculous decisons in scottish legal history. or maybe you watch celtic games on mute whenever they play at ibrox, tynecastle, rugby park, fir park, inverness, hampden etc.

just because you've never been on the recieving end of sectarian abuse and attitudes, does that mean the rest of us are making it up? your lucky you've never had to deal with it, but don't try and tell others who are subjected to sectarian chants and taunts every other week, and who deal with it on a regular basis that they are exaggerating the problem.

 

i find that an extremely dangerous and naive attitude to have. especially in relation to the recent events that has affected scottish society not just football.

i'am sure that would have been a similar attiude shared by some towards racism in the 60s, 70s and 80s. (and indeed today).

 

I think the recent events you speak of, were very sad....but not only because the individuals concerned were threatened, but because it was manna from heaven for those individuals on both sides, who continually like to play the "its them, not us" card.
Whether we like it or not, Neil Lennon was hated by them long before he became manager.....not because he is a Catholic from NI, but because he wears his heart on his sleeve, and doesnt take * etc...which is why they see him as always confrontational.Paddy McCourt and Niall McGinn may also have received threats, but they are in no way hated as Lennon is, and not because they are less prominent...Pat Bonnar was prominent in Scottish football for a long time, and did not receive anything like the problems NL has.It would be like them appointing Bob Malcolm or Ian Ferguson....or Mo Johnston!
Many in here are indignant at the threats NL got.....but most Rangers fans were against the threats and themselves embarrassed....but some in here will not have that at all, and are adamant that all the huns are collectively involved, when we all know(but conveniently ignore)it was a very small group of morons that do not reflect the average Rangers man or woman on the street.That would suit some people, but it is not true.If some deranged Celtic fan sent bullets to WS, most of our fans would condemn it, some wouldnt take it seriously or quitely snigger...and a few numbskulls would lap it up.......in the same proportions as them.But it is the numbskulls that get the attention.
What really f---s me off about these constant threads that end up going this way is that the implication is that Scottish Protestants are inherently racist....and that Irish Catholics are all inherently fair minded socialist thinking anti bigotry, anti racist human beings....and it is bullshit.There is no genetic predisposition to be racist among one group of humans as opposed to another.We all have the same genes.Some may be taught or brainwashed in a less than ideal way...but do we just "hate" them for something out of their control, or do we try and do what we can on an individual level to smooth things out and take any sting out of any given situation?Try and reason with people, instead of fighting poison, with poison!
I could feel the same way about Christians......just hate them for seeming weak and moronic(to me) in their blind belief in a fairy in the sky...but i dont hate them, or condemn them...even though they generally * me off...because i know it isnt their fault.Its what they were taught.All i can do is reason with them and hope i can sway a couple into what i perceive as rational thinking.Hating them as people is pointless.Hating their beliefs is another thing altogether.But that is not the way on a football forum....the "way", is to portray the enemy as an inbred deformed moron...and it is all a laugh!Yes, that is going to help the situation...portray them as a deformed race..or a breed......or a reflection of their "race".The weird thing is they do the same on their forums!
My analysis of Christians above, may be offensive to some people...but it is what i believe, and i know full well that they think i am deluded and they have contempt for my views on religion and think i am going to *.Just like some believe the IRA are heroes, and some believe they are murderers.Hating someone purely because of what they believe is ludicrous and a waste of time.(although understandable sometimes.)I am not immune...i get heated and say the things i try and condemn under normal circumstances.I get sucked in too.....but im aware of it, and try and fight it.
I think the last year and chain of events is awful for the protagonists, but not necessarily the worst thing that has happened with regard to the future of tolerance in Scotland.It hasnt really changed anything, but it has put the issues up for debate and got people talking about about what is and isnt acceptable.It is not nice to acknowledge problems in society.....but they are there, and if those from one side can be made to acknowledge their views and actions are out of date, and those on the other can meet them somewhere in the middle and stop exaggerating their sense of alienation....then we might get somewhere, but to just hate the people......because they support one team or another...its pathetic.I hate Rangers and enjoy the rivallry, but i judge people on their merits when i talk to them...i try not to pre judge a person because he is "one of them"!