1. Having trouble logging in by clicking the link at the top right of the page? Click here to be taken to the log in page.
    Dismiss Notice

Kyogo and Giaki?

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by LectersLuncheon, Mar 17, 2022.

Discuss Kyogo and Giaki? in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Wllm Gold Member Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,721
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Henrik Larsson
    Would love to see Kyogo as part of a front 2 with Giamoukakis. But could only see Ange doing that if we are chasing a game or if lack of options force his hand like in the St Johnstone 3-1 game. Ironically the game that he had Abada upfront with him for 15 minutes until his hamstring went.
     
  2. Keano88

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    49,079
    Likes Received:
    25,427
    Jota Kyogo Abada is the front 3 with all fit.

    Only way we play Kyogo and Giak from the start would be Kyogo on the left and that ain’t happening or shouldn’t happen ever again.

    Giak will still have a big part to play though.
     
  3. Goggzy60

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,571
    Likes Received:
    299
    I think once Kyogo is back GG (even from the bench) is gonna look better than now. Purely due to the fact by the time he comes on the opposition Centre Backs are gonna be shattered running after Kyogo for 60 minutes.
     
    Rydo1888* and Liam Scales like this.
  4. Ghost_Jiggle

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2021
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    64
    Fav Celtic Player:
    McGregor
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Grace/Champions Again
    Yeah, did he not stick to 2 up top when Dawson came on for Kyogo?

    I personally think that all Ange would need to change is the structure of the front three, which is obviously vastly more complicated than just saying it, but we have the personnel to play a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond, defence and midfield unchanged but instead of having wide forwards they'd all be central and our width would need to come from Taylor, JJ, Tony and whoever the two in midfield are. Would enable Kyogo and GG to play together and take the shackles off of the likes of Abada and Jota and give them free roles behind the strikers. You could easily revert back to a 4-3-3 (would mean Kyogo going out wide) plus you could experiment with this and play the likes of O Reilly behind the strikers too
     
    MagicBallBhoy likes this.
  5. Wllm Gold Member Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,721
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Henrik Larsson
    He started off with 2 up top in that game. Will need to check but think he officially played a 4-3-1-2. I'm sure he switched to 2 strikers when Bodo went 2 up at Celtic Park aswell. We managed to get a goal back through it.

    He might change his system further down the line though.
     
  6. wulliebad

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    19,412
    Likes Received:
    2,316
    Location:
    Land of the 45.
    With everyone fit i think Ange will always swap kyogo and GG around game for game. They might take turns starting or being the sub and Maeda will be swapped with Jota game by game. Chop and change to give players breaks and keep everyone match sharp in case of injuries.
     
  7. Lewis Kerr

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    6,400
    Likes Received:
    6,658
    Some amount of options across the front 3 when all fit

    Abada Kyogo Jota
    Jota Kyogo Maeda
    Abada Giakoumakis Jota
    Forrest Maeda Jota
    Forrest Giakoumakis Maeda
    Forrest Kyogo Jota
    Abada Kyogo Maeda
    Dembele Kyogo Jota
    Dembele Giakoumakis Jota
    Dembele Maeda Forrest
    Jota Giakoumakis Maeda​
     
  8. The_Bhoy

    Joined:
    May 20, 2020
    Messages:
    2,183
    Likes Received:
    1,417
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Larsson
    Can’t describe how glad I am this is even a discussion now. It was ajeti and Griffiths before…..ajeti and griffiths :97: * bless ange :shamrock:
     
  9. MagicBallBhoy Gold Member Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,088
    Likes Received:
    3,258
    I think it could be useful for breaking down scottish teams especially with that low block they all seem to play, in other leagues they all on masse dont set out to try and keep the point they had at the beginning of the game like they do up here, i think ange might have to change his philosphy and style because of this negative football attitude from scots clubs
     
  10. Taz Blind Justice Gold Member News Writer

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    26,667
    Likes Received:
    12,917
    Location:
    ...In Exile
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Paul McStay
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Celtic Symphony
    Think it's time this subject needs to be revisited.

    GG finished last season not just as the main man, but as the League's golden boot winner on the back of what was effectively half a season of football.

    This seaosn with the return of full fitness to Kyogo, who has started every League game he has been available, which has sent a very clear message that he is Ange's preferred option up top. Even in the Sevco game, although only lasting like 2 minutes or something, he was the one that was named in the starting XI, and in the European games also... but there are some games where the physicality that GG has would be better suited, where Kyogo may get pushed off the ball...

    Now, as a result of Kyogo, who has been in decent form no doubt, being absolutely looked upon as first choice, GG perhaps has lost his sharpness in front of goal, by only getting minutes here and there, rather than games. Which now has to be regained.

    Would it not be better to think of horses for courses between these two, considering they are very different types of players with different attributes, etc?

    Anyhow, thought it worth resurrecting this thread for discussion.
     
    Creativecelt, steg, bhoy81 and 2 others like this.
  11. James Gold Member Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    22,660
    Likes Received:
    16,815
    In games like that where you know teams are just going to sit in it's got to be Giakoumakis especially away from home
     
    Taz likes this.
  12. Double Dutch

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2019
    Messages:
    7,657
    Likes Received:
    8,061
    Fav Celtic Player:
    CalMac
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Celtic Symphony
    100% agreed Taz, it's actually detrimental to guys like GG, Ralston and others that they are not starting more often. Sais the same a few weeks ago regarding Abada, that it's a mistake having him playing second fiddle to Maeda, and I've proven right with that considering his form since he came back in.

    Giakoumakis should be starting at least as many games as Kyogo. Not because he's the better player, just that we need these guys match sharp at all times. It's extremely worrying imo.
     
  13. Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    68,190
    Likes Received:
    33,556
    Location:
    London
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Lubomir Moravcik
    Fav Celtic Song:
    You'll Never Walk Alone
    Giakoumakis has had plenty of minutes this season though, he at least should have a level of sharpness.
     
  14. Wllm Gold Member Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,721
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Henrik Larsson
    They were both * today to be brutally honest. Both didn't do themselves any favours.
     
  15. bhoy81

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    13,257
    Likes Received:
    5,280
    Location:
    from parkhead glasgow but now live in merseyside
    Think Big Jackie needs to be starting.
     
    Rydo1888* likes this.
  16. stew37

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,880
    Likes Received:
    5,902
    I want us to start every game domestically with 2 up top, always felt that way.
     
  17. EddieBhoy1986

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2022
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    955
    Match sharpness can be used to excuse guys like Ralston or Welsh who rarley get subbed on but GG gets plenty of game time. No excuse for his poor finishing.

    There will be teams whose set up suits Kyogo and others whose teams set up suits GG and Ange needs to be better at adapting to that.

    They both also need better service through the middle, missing Tam for that but again Hatate and O'Riley have had more than enough game time to be fixing this.
     
  18. Taz Blind Justice Gold Member News Writer

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    26,667
    Likes Received:
    12,917
    Location:
    ...In Exile
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Paul McStay
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Celtic Symphony
    Not disputing that, but the current message it has been is that Kyogo is Plan A. Anything that GG can offer is only considered Plan B, rather than those games when the physicality is going to be more needed and we know this from the start and as such going for GG, games where speed is needed, go for Kyogo.

    I know * all about golf, but I assume the whole idea about having a whole range of clubs is that so the player can decide which one is the better option for the hole they are currently playing, rather than just always playing the same clubs irrespective of terrain, distance, par etc, from hole 1 to 18.

    So using that analogy, is there not some sense in taking a similiar approach, given the different challenges that opposition are. It's not that hard either... Manager pulls player aside: "I'm not playing you this weekend, because I need you to focus on Tuesday. I need your x,y,z against so and so" etc, then turn around to the other guy and give a similiar speil when they're not starting.

    Just a thought, rather than situation where one player is made to feel Plan A and the other is left to think, I'm always just Plan B.

    And food for thought... would we have won 4-0 over Sevco had Kyogo played the first 60min? May've done even better, who knows? The only time we've seen that scenario was the 1-1 draw, back in May.

    (GG was not in the Scottish Cup SF and Kyogo off the bench as he was just coming back, so setting that aside for now.)

    But the fact that GG started twice against that shower of * last season, and we won convincingly 3-0 in Feb and away 2-1 at Ipox in April. GG then played 87+ min against them a couple of weeks ago, and even though he hasn't scored the goals, there has been plenty that he did do in those games that created space, opportunities for others and that we do know.

    To use that as the example, the evidence of 3 starts, 3 times we have dominated and won would seem there is something to it at least worth thinking about.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
  19. Wllm Gold Member Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,721
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Henrik Larsson
    I agree with that but it's just that I think in this particular game no matter who you start it wouldn't have had any a bearing on the outcome. They both didn't play well but tbf St Mirren didn't give them a sniff at all.
     
  20. McChiellini..

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    103,488
    Likes Received:
    75,083
    Location:
    Looking down on the mutants..
    Fav Celtic Song:
    For those who are in love.....
    Easy to say after today but Jackie easily..

    Kyogo when on form is the better 9 but Jackie offers us more. Much more of a threat. Works the defence. Still quick and presses also..

    Just isn't as gifted as Kyogo technically but still decent..

    He should've started. They had a field day with Kyogo and our front 3 with zero fight or quality to unlock them..