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Brendan Fraudgers!

Discussion in 'World Football' started by Mr. Slippyfist, May 20, 2016.

Discuss Brendan Fraudgers! in the World Football area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. trip2themoon Concomitant Allez-Vous?

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    I'd argue that Strachan was best manager since Martin. Had to contend with a Huns in peak cheat mode and took us to the last 16 of the Champions League twice.
     
  2. scootz

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    How do you reach that conclusion?

    The level of domestic competition his team played against was largely comparable to that faced by Delia and Lenny (in his second spell)... and Snake's points-per-game tally was only 0.12 better than Ronnie's (a rookie) and it was 0.05 worse than Neils! Hardly stellar.

    His Celtic European record? Boils down to one word - embarrassing!

    Jock Stein is untouchable at No 1... its between Willie Maley and MON for 2nd / 3rd... Cesar, WGS and Lenny (first spell) all have a good shout for being above Ratface!
     
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  3. trip2themoon Concomitant Allez-Vous?

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    How could you put him ahead of Martin O' Neil? Martin done what hadn't been done since Jock: made us a European force. When Martin was here there was no one we feared in Europe and he won domestically during Hun cheat years. Rat-boy turned us into the team everyone wants in a group stage, the one that pretty much guarantees points.
     
  4. Jordann Gold Member Gold Member

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    Lenny has a good shout to be above Rodgers? *.

    Strachan is definitely the most underrated manager we’ve had, and it’s probably because we weren’t great to watch.

    Rodgers won everything he competed in domestically, no matter what level of opposition you play, that is one * of an achievement to keep that level of consistency and we were great to watch!

    Stein is obviously number 1, Maley is 2nd.

    I’d then have O’Neill, Rodgers and Strachan as my top 5. And after that, Billy McNeil then probably Lennon.
     
  5. Valhalla Thus spoke Batistuta.

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    Lennon above Rodgers :giggle1:

    You just have to look at what Lennon done to his team to see how ridiculous a statement that is :rofl:
     
  6. FrankMcCallum Gold Member Gold Member

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    I loved the O’Neill era, some of the best times of my life, but there’s a * load of revisionism that goes on as well.

    Rodgers is a far superior coach, regardless of what you think of him as a person.

    O’Neill inherited Henrik Larsson, Paul Lambert, Lubo Moravcik, Johan Mjallby and Stan Petrov - 5 of the best players I’ve ever seen play for the club, and was permitted to spend an absolute fortune on big earners from the Premier League.

    He left us in a very bad way, paying monumental wages to guys in their 30s.

    The league we lost in 2005 was a scandal, against a pathetic Rangers team that had the likes of Ronald Watterrus, Marvin Andrews, Alex Rae, Bob Malcolm, and Michael Ball as key first team players.

    For as brilliant the Seville run was he should have done better in Europe with the team we had. We paid some of the highest wages in Britain throughout O’Neills time here and didn’t qualify from a CL group once.

    Rodgers inherited a shambles. We were getting pumped off Molde twice with Tyler Blackett and Efe Ambrose in our back line 6 months before he arrived, and getting knocked out of cups against second division Sevco.

    He improved every player he coached, won every available trophy, got us in to the CL group stages twice after a three year absence and left us in a phenomenal position. Not his fault our board * it up.

    He negotiated our return to the CL weeks after his arrival, and went toe to toe with Pep’s Man City and Gladbach within months, thanks to his coaching and the implementation of his gameplan.

    The way we played in his first two seasons was as exciting, coherent, and fluent as I’ve ever seen any Celtic team play - until now.
     
  7. scootz

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    You'll note I said in his first stint!

    Evidence?

    Neil faced a MUCH stronger (genuine) Rangers side than Snake did. They were in their last flush of cheating and were writing fat cheques knowing they were never going to be honoured. And he still had a better points-per-game ratio than the rat achieved.

    Neil also got us into the last 16 of the Champions League. What did Snake's do in Europe? Oh yeah - embarrassed us!

    Snake had one of the easiest domestic tenures of ANY Celtic manager - I'd have expected it to be a Trophy-fest!
     
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  8. FrankMcCallum Gold Member Gold Member

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    See above.

    Comparing Rodgers to Strachan and O’Neill is acceptable and can be debated.

    Comparing him to Lennon should be enough to see a man sectioned.
     
  9. scootz

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    The post I put on seconds before yours lays out my thoughts...
     
  10. Valhalla Thus spoke Batistuta.

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    In his first stint Lennon completely bottled the title in 2011. The next season he was up against * Ally McCoist and a Hun team that went into admin before they died.

    He got us into the last 16 in one of the flukiest campaigns we’ve ever had in Europe.

    I don’t think anyone is defending Rodgers European record. Ironically I used to constantly get abuse on here for calling out his bad he was in Europe.

    The domestic game was in a far worse state in Lennon’s first tenure after the Huns died than when Rodgers took over. Yet he constantly bottled cup games and turned Hampden into a graveyard for us.


    Even after the way the rat left and how many years Lennon was here in his career, in the future nobody is going to talk about ‘the Neil Lennon team’ while Rodgers team will be basically the standard every team in our future will be compared to now.

    There’s a reason when Lennon left and was available without any compensation money he ended up at the mighty *checks notes* … Bolton Wanderers.

    Look at Lennon’s career and look at Rodgers career. Anyone thinking they’re even only a few levels apart is a genuine * idiot. The Rat is in a completely different stratosphere to him as manager.
     
  11. Valhalla Thus spoke Batistuta.

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    we beat barca. hh
     
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  12. FrankMcCallum Gold Member Gold Member

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    All of this.

    Plus, Rodgers earned us £9million in compensation.

    We had to pay Lennon to * off, after him hanging around like a bad smell whilst decimating our club.

    For all the talk of how bad Rodgers’ European record is, which I agree it wasn’t great, his CL record is no worse than Martin O’Neill’s, who is lauded as a * amongst our support.

    He also had us playing like a coherent European football team and picked up some very impressive results against Leipzig, Anderlecht, Man City, Gladbach, and very good performances at home against Bayern Munich and Zenit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2022
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  13. Jordann Gold Member Gold Member

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    I think Valhalla pretty much summed up what I’d reply.

    Lennon was not that great in his first stint as manager. We had a few great results, eg Barca, but he got lucky Rangers went to * imo.

    Rodgers didn’t perform the best in Europe but he went for it, there was some great games like the draw with Man City, we only drew but that was a great game to watch.

    Also, yeah Rodgers didn’t have to worry about Rangers at all, but if it was that simple why didn’t Deila do it? To perform to those standards and win every single trophy, and let’s be honest, although he left before the season ended, those 2 trophies were really still Rodgers in the sense of the momentum continuing and it was super easy for Lennon to just carry on with what Rodgers built before ripping it to shreds.

    Lennon doesn’t get anywhere close to being in my top 5, he might be 6/7th but he is still so far away from the top 5, at least for me.
     
  14. scootz

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    Guys - I'm not bumming up Neil Lennon as a stellar manager - I'm simply using Lenny's first stint as a yardstick to measure the Rats legacy. And I think it provides evidence that Snake wasn't ANYWHERE NEAR as good a manager as some on here believe he was.

    The fact stands - Neil had a better PPG ratio (first stint) than Rat... he had a better Rangers team to face... he got us into the KO stages of the CL.

    Rats name is built on winning 7 domestic trophies on the bounce... fair enough, but the league titles were gimme's, and the Celtic team were overwhelming favourites for all the Cup campaigns. There was NO domestic competition.

    Because Deila wasn't a particularly good manager!

    Also worth noting that Lenny had to work to get the titles started off by Rat... such was the mince we had been playing before he left. Snake had run out of ideas!
     
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  15. The Phoenix Black Lives Matter

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    A bizzare yardstick to choose, given that it actually enhances Rodgers' legacy, not Lennon's.

    A kind of 'self own', if you like.

    Rodgers' accomplishments are so self-evidently better than anything Lennon ever did at Celtic, I can't even believe it's being debated. Unless it's just pure trolling. In which case, fair play.
     
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  16. Fear Dearg

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    His unwillingness to change our tactics for European games guaranteed we would always concede a boatload
     
  17. Officer Doofy Come to me, human man Gold Member

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    Honestly, if anyone genuinely believes there's even a conversation to be had that Lennon was a better Celtic manager than Rodgers, they need to watch a different sport.

    Rodgers won every domestic trophy he competed in. Went a season unbeaten. Qualified for the CL twice in 3 seasons.

    Lennon, largely, had an abysmal cup record. Lost the league against an average hun team in his first spell. Yes he got us into the Last 16 once, but aside from that had some right shockers in Europe as well. Also oversaw one of the worst seasons in our history.

    It's not even close.
     
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  18. The Prof Administrator Administrator

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    By all acounts Lenny was in awe of the set up Rodgers had in place, training methods, player fitness, coaching, etc etc ....


    Bottom line is that Lennon was so unprofessional , it all fell apart and ended up a total mess, for whatever reason the Board allowed him to limp on, this only further damaged his reputation and left the vast majority of supporters angry that he never walked.

    There's a good reason why thousands turned up at CP to welcome Rodgers, we knew we were gettin a top manager, regardless of how it ended he brought us unparalleled domestic success.
     
  19. scootz

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    Meh. Snake is still a *!

    :56:
     
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  20. The Prof Administrator Administrator

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    Aye he will always be a *, no doubt about it. :giggle1:
     
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