Fans Attitude Towards Young Players

Was something I was talking about tonight, it’s something we’ve been wanting for years, developing young players and bringing them through.

Do you think the fans are patient enough for it, even the ones that are producing? The criticism and lack of patience with guys like Turnbull and Abada lately makes me think we might be incapable of it, they’re posting the numbers and producing on the pitch. They are far from the finished article and to me it seems like we think that’s far from good enough, do you think us as a fanbase can allow for the rough edges of the game that the young players need to develop?

 

If we don't develop our own youth players and bring them through, then over time we become more of a franchise than a club. Even disregarding the soul and culture of Celtic, on a purely footballing basis if we develop our own young players, we embed the Celtic style of playing football so that it becomes second nature as our young players become ready for first team football. Without it, we are at risk of becoming financially unsustainable due to inflated player wages. It's difficult to be patient, because Celtic is a club that is synonymous with success. But our support is more likely to be patient with our own young players, I'd like to think. I remember the game against them when Sean Maloney made his debut for us as a seventeen year old, and the way he ripped into them, scared the life out of them. It's always that little bit special when it's one of your own coming through.

 

We absolutely need to mate, not just because of the reasons above but because, developing guys with massive potential gets us better talent than the ones we can bring in at times. We can get 22 year old Van Dijk, not 27 year old Van Dijk.

It’s if we think us as a fanbase can accept the shortcomings that go hand in hand with inexperienced players.

 

Been an issue for years. Really * me off how intolerant almost all our fans are of developing players. Us and the huns are atrocious. In all honesty we are probably the worst. So many younger players have had their development stunted by staying with us. Particularly recently under Lennon (both times).

Over recent years we've seen the likes of Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd having to rely on development players at critical points. In our domestic league we could be doing so much better if we were more committed and brave about development and stopped buying so many £2 - £5 million flops.

 

I’d say it’s the opposite, anytime a youth player gets a sniff at the first team folk go overboard.

We sold most youth players of note last season anyway.

 

The most noticeable youth product last season was Welsh by far I think.

 

That’s where I am as well mate, we want to develop youth but we have no time for the inexperience that comes along with it.

 

The issue with youth players is very few are good enough to make the grade, but fans expect every youth player to be the next Messi.

To become a top player you need, talent, work ethic, a focused attitude and a bit of luck. That's why many don't make it not just at Celtic but around the world.

To many of the kids get overhyped then that goes to their heads, the good ones focus and get on with it, the ones that usually push through moves are the ones that rarely make it. They go from being a good prospect at a club where you stand out to clubs where your another good footballer in a system where there are 100s on the conveyer belt.

I love when we bring through our own talent, guys that want to be here, improve as a player then perhaps earn that big move. Tierney was the prime example of this, took his chance in the first team, bossed it, never seemed to look for the 'big move' that opportunity came to him. That's the way it should be done, you earn that on the football pitch, not on the fact you have raw talent and MIGHT be a good player in the future.

I'm all for bringing talent through the club if they're good enough and have the right attitude. There are a few in and around the team right now I think they have the right attitude, just some lack the quality.

If you spend millions on youth, there is no point having it if your not going to utilise them. Like I said not everyone will make the grade every season. That's fine as there are much more things involved than just being good. I'd rather a kid break through than waste 5 million on dud import.

 

This is true mate, the thing is, Liel Abada is a young player we’ve brought in. As is David Turnbull that’s us bringing in young players for money but the same applies that they aren’t the finished article, players coming through the ranks usually have a small period of time when it’s overhyped but when ot comes to relying on them, it’s treated as a player that’s the finished article - Adam Montgomery is just starting to get over that grace period just now I think.

 

A club like celtic are in that middle ground where, 3 million for a player is quite a lot of money to spend on a player, in that you need to be as close to the finished article as possible OR some amazing potential to get resale on. Youth players get the short straw on this, as unless they're good enough to hold a place they're overlooked or recruited over. Where we play in a limited league, you still need to put a competitive team out, our fans demand success and its too much of a risk playing youth players. This season is a prime example of that where recruitment was bad so we're having to rely on youth either not good enough yet or not ready enough, yet fans are still demanding finished article performances. Liel and Turnbull are being hauled into that debacle as we don't have cover for them, they get picked apart for bad performances but with no cover have to carry that into the next game with the criticism fresh in their heads, it's a vicious circle which can have negative implications on their future career. January can't come fast enough as we desperately need squad players to allow natural development to happen.

 

Aye that’s the crux of it, because more often than not this year the assist or goal has came through one of they two when it’s not been Kyogo. When Kyogo was injured and they weren’t they were the ones we were relying upon, they’re doing well and posting the numbers. It’s the other parts that come with experience they aren’t, and they get attacked for it I think.

There’s another point there that the pressure to do it makes them better, if they cope. I just feel like we’re too harsh on letting players develop.

 

This is what has shocked me most since coming on this forum and supposedly Twitter is even worse. The vitriol and criticism and total lack of patience for young players with a lot of folk on here and that includes some regular posters who clearly think they're quite intelligent is very disappointing. For me if a young player is trying hard and making some kind of contribution he shouldn't be criticised especially if he's being played out of position or thrown into an already struggling team because of injuries which has happened a lot over the past couple of years - Johnstone and Morgan having to play up front, Murray playing in CL games, Welsh and Montgomery chucked in cos we have no-one else and now Abada who's 19 and moved to a different culture and style of football and has actually started quite well. A lot of young players will take a couple of years to find their feet at a club like Celtic with all the demands on them, expected to win every game against teams who pack their defence.
It really scunners me at times.

 

Aye 100%..

Consistency is the most difficult aspect for a young player to achieve at the top level. Abada and Turnbull clearly have lots of attributes including class and an end product (lots of young players don't ) and some of the criticism is well over the top.

We have had to rely on both too much tho, through injuries and poor squad depth.

In general an element of our support are the most impatient with our academy graduates, which has always been a mystery to me, as they deserve the most patience and support, bizarre..

 

Definitely agree with @Tony Ralston that as a fanbase we do lack patience (I'm not excluding myself from that either) and @G40B is also right that it can be over the top when a youth player has one good game early on that leads us to have these unrealistically high expectations.

It's a fickle sport though and this is the nature of it, especially when it comes to the fans. Ultimately the 11 on the park are all seen as grown men whether they're 17 or 37, even though that obviously makes a huge difference to how you go about the game.

Even though I've criticised Montgomery lately, there's enough there to see he has potential and can develop into a handy player for us, it's Europe where he's looked out of his depth but then how else do these lads get experience until you play them? They don't.

Welsh as well, overall his performances have been very good bar the odd mistake. It's just the mistakes get remembered more than the good play as it usually leads to a goal for guys in defence.

I hope we keep playing these lads because they're good enough, and their work ethic in training is earning them that shot. We as fans don't see that side, and have to trust the manager there.

I'm sure many managers here have been reluctant to play these guys in fear of them making costly mistakes, as it's their job on the line if results go to *...

 

I think we should have kept playing Welsh rather than Starfelt to be honest. I think maybe the price tag influenced that decision...

 

It's rather strange to be honest. Starfelt doesn't seem anything special and it hinders the growth of Welsh. There are times I'd rather we just bought an okay defender from our own league for £2m.

Some of the comments on here regarding players like Monty, Welsh, Abada and Turnbull are pretty *. They make 1 mistake and they are suddenly *.
The fact that a season without a trophy is out of the question at our club really does harm us producing youth. Not many clubs in the world have that pressure, so the other clubs can have a passable season without winning a trophy and give youth players the chance.

 

I don't necessarily think the criticism is thrown at players intentionally, it's more of a byproduct of frustration that your playing players week in week out that maybe are not ready to be regular starters but having to play due to lack of depth within the squad.

 

Thing is though, especially Abada and Turnbull, they’re also playing because replacing their goals and assists would be * hard to do regardless. Especially in Turnbull’s case, Abada it’s down to Forrest being injured. They deserve the places just now, we just don’t have the patience to let them learn on the job.

 

Think it’s more of a case that we don’t have a proper youth and reserve team set up. The Colts team playing in the lower leagues is a start, but is it enough? Is the jump too big?

A lot of the football clubs in England are moving towards a ‘B’ team structure where players who don’t play enough regular football are playing regularly in the ‘B’ team. Players such as Welsh, Soro, Murray, Scales, Lawal and Shaw who are fringe players get more consistent game time. There’s an awfully big void between the first team and the colts.

What to do about it? Well there’s plenty of Premier League and Championship teams running this structure who are after quality opponents. There is also a ‘B’ team/reserves league being touted as being set up south of the border. I think it makes sense for Celtic to be at the table for those discussions and try field a ‘B’ team if that competition comes to fruition. At the very least be taking on the like of PL and Championship’B’ teams.

That in turn will help with the development of the youth players and put them in a position to succeed when called upon. The regular game time will help with ironing out the inconsistencies earlier.

 

Again that’s a good point but the guys that made me think of this thread the most were Turnbull and Abada, who are simply too good to play in a second string like that.