David Turnbull

His deliveries were top notch when he first arrived. So frustrating.

 

Sure thats what Austin Macphee’s role is, he is a set piece specialist

 

Yes, I was initially impressed with his set piece deliveries. Have we just coached it out of him?
Do we have a set piece coach?

 

Much like other players who break in, they can look promising and positive at first. But when we do zero work to develop them, that promise falls quickly to nothing and can some times take a backwards step


Similar happened with frimpong, we all saw how energetic and good he was initially, by the time he left, lots were glad claiming he was * and no end product.

8 months at Leverkusen, guy comes back here and we see he's improved massively.

Soro likewise to Turnbull, initially impressive, yet rusty and "raw", we do nothing to help him, he steps out the team for awhile comes back in and we all think he's went backwards. He hasnt, he just hasn't developed at all.

Same for Turnbull.
Zero development. Because we don't do development.


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I'll never understand it.

The money to be earned from properly developing talent is unreal but we barely put any thought into it. We're more interested in making sure Ryan Christie doesn't earn too much and we don't give Hibs a fair price for John McGinn.

We're so poorly run.

 

Aye, for the money we waste chasing "gems" that Desmond or Lawwell thought they could spy, we easily could have afforded the best coaching and development team in the whole of Europe.

It's not tens of thousands a week we need to pay these sort of coaches, the cost to have a dedicated setup to these aspects is so small in comparison to what we waste even on one player, could easily have developed so many more players in to better ones, worth more.

 

I've said over the last few games with him, his confidence is shot and that carries on to set pieces. You see him going to take a corner and there is very little effort put in to it by him, just a raise of the arm then a punt into a general direction. This is a million miles from what he used to do where his set pieces were calculated and pinpoint.

It makes you ask yourself if its his confidence, him not wanting to take set pieces any more or something going on in training. I sway towards confidence as his around game isn't up to what he gave us glimpses of in the past.

 

I think it’s more that we don’t have anyone to take advantage of his corners.

When Julien comes back you’ll see people start saying Turnbull’s delivery’s improved.

 

Man City invested £200m in doing just that in 2014. Don’t think we could have easily done that at all.

 

I think it’s clear what he meant even if it was a tad hyperbolic.

But what you’ve said reinforces the importance of development. Man City, capable of buying almost any player on the planet, still recognise the importance of development to the point they’ll spend £200m on it. Meanwhile we cut corners so we can take a punt on another poorly scouted ‘gem’.

 

It’s not a tad hyperbolic at all. It’s absolutely something we can do better but it’s not just a case of throwing a couple of quid at it and that’ll be it.

The big clubs throw that much money at it and hoover up a * of a lot of the prospects it’s difficult to find our niche. When even Bayern are hoovering up Scottish talent, it’s a difficult space to be in.

 

Saying we don’t do development isn’t true. Ajer and Edouard being the most recent examples of us developing players.

 

Our captains probably the best example of it

 

Great point. Plenty of other examples too. By and large the players who haven’t made it at us just didn’t have enough ability anyway.

 

Looks like there’s some confusion here. We were talking about hiring coaches and youth coaches, not hoovering up young players.

The point was it wouldn’t take an astronomical budget to hire a top youth coaching team or putting money into it generally.

We tend to bring in O’Dea and McManus rather than go out with a budget and bring in guys working in successful programmes at other clubs.

It was discussed on here before and someone had the numbers of the size of youth coaching teams on the continent vs. here.

The point is money wouldn’t be the blocker for Celtic. No where near it.

 

That isn't necessarily true though is it, is it our coaching that is developing the players and the tactical insights and positioning from our staff or is it just that these players are naturally gifted and are developing by simply playing games of football and working on themselves?

A lot of the stagnation we have seen from the likes of Ajer and Edouard and many others in their time at Celtic for me lends an argument towards our coaching staff are not good enough and our background team is not good enough to continue to develop their game past a certain level. People might argue the Scottish league will limit a players ceiling but i don't buy it. Good coaching and training can lift that ceiling and i don't think we have that throughout all levels at Celtic from junior to senior level.

 

So player doesn’t get better - Celtic coaching at fault
Player gets better - Celtic coaching not the reason

seems fair

 

If we do have a "set piece coach" then he's been earning a wage under false pretences as our corners, free kicks and even shy's are all *.

 

Not in every scenario no but in the majority i think this is true, regression is down to the level of coaching we offer as a club. Players move in and out of form over a season but over a longer period its the quality of coaching that should shine though.

You only need to compare our performance to smaller/poorer clubs in Europe. Our tactical analysis and overall development is shocking in comparison and at the base level its down to coaching. Development of players shouldn't just be seen in how much money we get for them.

Loads of poor players get high transfer fees, how we should look at development of players is from a much higher level, how has the team developed, do we have a style of play, are we tactically aware, do we have that European nous that for some reason we don't even though we have played in Europe for decades!

We are a poorly run club from a football standpoint and that goes for player development and coaching as well.