Neil Lennon

You said who could blame him for wanting away with the abuse?

My point is he quickly came back to Scotland when he failed down there

If he left initially because of the abuse, why put yourself through it all again?

Maybe it's because he didn't leave for that reason

 

I can't help myself, I have to point out that he's undeniably right on the interpretation of Lustig being a Celtic man who is literally bigger (or at least much taller), although obviously (as you say) not on the interpretation of being more of a Celtic man.

It's a compulsion. I can't fight it.

 

Thank, mate. That's genuinely big of you.

I think a lot of it comes down to differences in how we interpret Lenny's previous record. If, like me, you think Lenny did an excellent job in both spells before this season, then there are a million and one reasons why he would stay to fight it out.

If, like many on here, you are convinced he didn't, then I guess it's more natural to think of any reason he would stay apart from money.

What I would say is that, even if I'm wrong about the job he did in previous seasons, if he himself believes the same as me, then all the many non-mercenary reasons he might stay are opened up again, even if we are wrong.

Honestly, though, worse even than the abuse for me has been the months of posters here confidently declaring exactly what Neil Lennon is thinking or what his reasons are for certain decisions he makes. There's a fair number of posters doing it and after a while it gets exhausting to answer them all.

 

I need to remind myself of the years that have passed since Lenny first walked in the door at Paradise.

I keep forgetting there will be plenty on here that were a practice * stain in their daddies y fronts when Lennon was spitting on hun scarfs and refusing to lie down to those bigoted fuckpigs while being subjected to the most vile abuse imaginable.

Now it’s went full circle and his own are the ones abusing him.

Strange days indeed.

 

In b4 ‘hurr durr Celtic Da alert’

 

You might be right, but I can't think straight about him right now. I'm too angry. I genuinely think he's a money-grabbing, self-centred, selfish, arrogant * at the moment.

He has done a good job for us in the past and deserves some credit for that, though.

 

No worries

But I think that was a non-answer mate. What are the reasons he would stay and fight it out? Can you give me one you think might be the case?

 

This is basically how I, and I imagine a massive chunk of the support, feel about Lennon just now.

I think it’s often easier to shift the bulk of the blame on to Lawwell because he’s a behind the scenes guy, a pencil pusher if you like, but he’s only to blame as as far as not replacing Lennon much earlier goes. He backed him massively.

Lennon himself has to shoulder a lot of the responsibility here - and every term you just used to describe Lawwell could equally be thrown at him.

 

Off the top of my head, I can give you a laundry list that seem plausible enough to me (I've actually posted similar on here before somewhere):

1) He thinks he's done a good job in previous seasons and is backing himself to turn things round.
2) He's seen the Huns collapse before and hopes the league can be rescued.
3) He really believes that nonsense about never having managed in a pandemic and therefore thinks our form is not due to his mistakes.
4) He realises he's * up, but believes (based on previous seasons) that he's better than that and wants the chance to redeem himself.
5) He's been told we have no one decent waiting in the wings until next summer and thinks he has solved the problem with the squad now and therefore thinks we have a better chance of catching the Huns if he doesn't walk away and leave us rudderless
6) He doesn't really understand what happened and hasn't really had time to reflect, he's just focussed on trying to turn things around.
7) He thinks he's been unlucky with injuries, squad disharmony and Broony picking the worst possible season for his legs to finally go and hasn't yet clicked that it can still be his responsibility as manager even if it isn't his fault.
8) Lawwell and Desmond have told him to stay in their zoom talks and he's taking that as confirmation of possibilities 1 or 4 above.
9) He is, like everyone else including me, scared to lose his job in a declining part of the world and an economy that is spiralling downwards.
10) He's a money grabbing * who knows he'll never have a big job like this again, is milking the club he said he loved for all he can and bluffing his way to as big a settlement as possible.

etc

etc

etc

 

I'm not sure that you could at all. Lawwell has never hidden that he's motivated primarily by money and his own career. I don't think he'd even consider that an insult. Lennon, on the other hand, has never come across like that to me.

 

Jesus mate, all of these are either self-interest, a sense of duty or completely inexcusable ignorance of the situation he’s in. Some are a combination of more than one.

If you don’t think it’s self interest or a sense of duty (as you said..) you must therefore think he is just woefully ignorant of the situation?

 

When has Lawwell ever said he’s motivated primary by money and his own career? According to Strachan, he turned down a move to Arsenal that would definitely have involved a step up in pay.

Right now, coming across self-centred, arrogant, money focused are all absolutely traits Lennon has demonstrated this season.

 

* Neil Lennon..

The slightly overweight shandy drinking ginger *..

 

I don't think that's quite right. There's one that's self-interest and one that's better described as instinctive self-preservation than self-interest (the latter term smacks of a selfishness that I did not intend). The others are duty and ignorance, yes; but I wouldn't necessarily agree with the "inexcusable" part. As I argued above, few of us are much good at evaluating our own performance objectively. That rare ability is part of what makes Bielsa's press conferences so fascinating. That's also why it's such a dereliction of duty on the part of the board: it's their responsibility to be that objective assessor and decide that it's time to change the manager.

I don't really like to say this, but in his interviews, he sadly hasn't really been coming across to me as in touch with what has been happening or as if he really understands much about what has been going on. I don't know if I'd go as far as saying "woefully ignorant". Stress does funny things to the mind.

Edit: also, when did I say I didn't think it was a sense of duty?
I think a sense of duty might easily be part of it.

 

I didn't say he said that; I said he's never hidden it. He reeks of it.

 

* McCoist the hun *.

 

One who have heated driveway does not give two *, old Chinese proverb.

 

Hmm, call it self preservation if you like, that’s really no improvement on self-interest at all. If the Celtic manager is acting in self preservation while we lose the 10 that’s pretty damning tbh.

For me if he’s ignorant of the situation, stressed or not, it’s inexcusable. In my opinion he’s not ignorant at all and I think you’re being extremely generous suggesting this could be a reason for him staying in the job. For me he knows exactly the * he’s put us in.

Right here mate, then you accused me of straw-manning you when I suggested that’s presumably what you thought.

 

Like I said, a lot of people are simply more comfortable shifting the blame to Lawwell simply because it’s more palatable.

Apply the same standards to both. You’re accusing Lawwel of ‘reeking’ of being focused solely on money when he’s already turned down more elsewhere, while absolving Lennon of the same criticism despite it being blatantly obvious that this is his last big job in football.

 

He stayed at Celtic because he loves the club and nothing to do with him getting an easy ride and massive pay cheque.