Neil Lennon

I really don’t understand that at all.

Yes this season is about the 10, but that doesn’t mean we should sacrifice everything else. We’ve already embarrassed ourselves in Europe and in the League Cup.

Losing against Hearts in a cup final should be unthinkable. Not only would it be another humiliation, it would kill the little bit of momentum that we’re gathering.

If we can’t beat Hearts, then you can forget about mounting a title challenge.

 

FS if you've read the thread you will see i've had quite a few responses to my OP and Ive tried to be nice but its getting on my * * now. This is last years cup final, Im not saying we should * sacrifice everything this season. If we canna beat Hearts with the older members of the squad then how the * does that mean we can't win the 10 with the fine young talent we have and have proven that they are ready to take fight. Feel free to pick out and quote random bits of my post if you like to score some * points if you so wish.

 

Brown as captain needs to think about what's best for the team here, the player that's came in & largely contributed to our two most recent wins, or himself who was part of 2 wins in 12 & playing poorly before Soro came into his position. I think we all know what makes most sense, as should he.

He should take the pressure off Lenny, have a private chat & tell him to keep Soro in the team because he's earned that through performances, this is about the team, not individuals & it should always be that way.

 

Why would he do that? I've seen this loads in England where the bigger clubs would play kids in the league cup and there was always the debate whether to bring the big guns back for the final. Mostly, teams stuck with the kids out of fairness and so as not to cause anger. This is the same, the only difference is that it's kind of flipped inasmuch as for us it's the kids that are the big guns and the old guard that got us to the final, but basically it's the same logic.

We moan when players don't show loyalty, but loyalty always has to be a two-way street. Broony has run through brick walls for us, played through injury for us and turned down the EPL in his prime. Repaying his loyalty with fairness is not sentimentality. He earned this cup final. Sadly, his performances in this season's league haven't earned him a place in our starting 11 in the league, but he has earned this cup final by being captain of the team that got us there.

 

Loyalty is a great attribute to have in life...that said Neil Lennon has to realise that his main loyalty is to Celtic FC, not Scott Brown or any other individual. In past seasons Broony has been the backbone of the team on the park, he has led us to success after success....this season though by his own high standard he has not been as influential and in some games has been careless and slack on the ball. Broony isn't alone though, Christie, Eddy even McGregor have been below par this season.....for whatever reason.

Lenny MUST play his in form players on Sunday, forget any feelings of loyalty or feelings of owing the old guard a game in the final.....Stick with the team who are showing a willingness to give their all for the club....Do that and we will celebrate yet another trophy come Sunday evening.

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Do we have a better chance of winning the cup with Brown or Soro starting? I'd argue Soro & that's all that matters in relation to this game, we're Celtic FC, not Scott Brown FC, no one is bigger than the club & btw we've more than repaid Browns loyalty by making him one of our highest earners year on year since he signed in 2007.

To give ourselves the best chance of winning the Quadruple Treble, we have to play the best players available, I know we've only seen him in two starts, but Soro has performed better in the last two games than Brown has all season, that's just reality.

Paul Lambert in his last season at 35, who was the captain that got us to our first European Final since 1970 & who was also a far better player than Brown, got three appearances in his final season. Brown has started more matches this season than most outfield 35 year olds could dream about for a club of our size, all I'm saying is it's time to think about the team & not individuals. I'd hope Brown has already had the conversation with Lenny about maintaining the status quo midfield of the last two games.

 

Playing someone purely out of loyalty to them is a recipe for disaster tbh.

Getting some continuity in the team is so important in advance of the trip to Ibrox. We simply can’t afford the luxury of sentimentality.

 

I can see it from either perspective to be honest. It’s a tournament technically from last season, but aye we could do with some regularity - especially when the current players are playing with confidence.

 

Sort of sentimental pish that has hampered us all season, not the least bit surprised.

 

Start with the recent line ups and once we have got a winning scoreline bring brown on for he last 10/15 mins so he gets a chance to be part of it. He can even lift the trophy with whoever captains us that day.

 

It's hardly a farewell game for him. Absolutely no need for him to be playing at the expense of a winning side.

 

To be fair, the manager is literally in a job still because of the same sentiment and loyalty mindset.
No doubt that seems to be the theme in this club right now.

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A straw man ever I saw one. Acting with a minimal of loyalty and fairness is not putting the other person first, it's doing the decent thing. It's living by what you hope would be our values.

If you think winning always and everywhere trumps decency, then you want Celtic to act with a selfishness and ruthlessness that you probably wouldn't want for yourself. Just as in our own lives, there has to be a balance between fairness on the one hand and pragmatism on the other.

This statement of rather extreme values that you made is all the more extraordinary as you seem to believe that stating it (and affirming, as if from on high and without further justification, that it's all that matters) is valid in lieu of answering any of the points I made in my post. You didn't and it isn't.

 

He's still in a job because Lawwell et al had no plan B and don't want a prestigious coach that would demand autonomy anyway. They'd rather cross their fingers and hope Lenny turns it round in time to rescue the league. There may or may not also be an element of "* you" to their stubborness too, I don't know.

But it definitely isn't fairness or loyalty on their part.

 

If we win the cup I'm willing to give Lennon to January at least, we need a new manager soon though that's obvious.

 

What do you mean your willing? The board is giving him free reign till then.

 

For me, he needs to win the league to stay. It looks unlikely to me, but obviously I hope he proves me wrong. If he turns it around enough to win that, I'm willing to forget the last few months

 

What about the loyalty we showed him when he was out of contract at 33 years old with the only reported serious interest in him a team from the * A League? Was that not great loyalty? We gave him a 2 year contract, we could have given him a 1 year extension, but we gave him 2 instead, he repaid that loyalty about 2 months later with one of the most idiotic moments I've ever seen from a Celtic player in any game ever, let alone in a CL Qualifier worth 10s of millions, he had a literal hand in sending us out the CL against Cluj costing the club upwards of £30M+, so spare me the 'we owe him', 'fairness', 'decency' crap.

The best leadership Brown could show right now, is taking the pressure off Lenny & telling him to continue with the winning midfield of the last two games.

 

We gave him a contract because it suited us. He played a major part in the treble treble. No one could know in advance how many more years we would get from him at that point and 2 was a compromise. It could have been 2, it could have been 0, in the event it was 1. Neither party owes the other party anything from that deal.

Where I say he showed loyalty is not knocking back the A league; it's knocking back the EPL in his prime. It's not giving 100% every time he played (he did, but that ought to be a given for players); it's playing through injury for us. It's quitting Scotland early to prolong his career at us. It's captaining us to 9iar and a ridiculous treble treble.

Nor is it even only about loyalty. More important, in fact, is fairness. This is not even nearly the first situation that threw up this conundrum in world football and Lenny is far from the first manager to decide that the players that got us there deserve to play. The only odd thing is that it's usually about kids rather than the old guard, but the logic is the same regarding what's fair.

Finally, as I have said several times, I would have understood if Lenny had decided to prioritise momentum. I totally agree with the folk saying they can see both sides. But please stop repeating that bit in bold, because it's an absolute riddy. No one thinks like that: not me, not you, not Scott Brown. If I work my absolute balls off at work and our team is up for a teaching award in large part due to my hard work, my boss might or might not decide to send Soro instead of me, because they think he is a better teacher than me; but there's no way I'd go to them and say, "Listen, boss. I know I worked my balls off for this opportunity, I know a lot of our achievement is down to me and I'm 100% confident we can win this with me at the helm; but actually I think you should * me off and send Soro instead, because he's a better teacher than me."

Would I *. No one thinks like that.

 

Although I can see your point, Brown is at the end of his career and has signed his last contract. Im assuming you aren't 60 odd and have a long way to go in teaching - Scott Brown is at a different stage - he will most likely leave the club this summer whether he plays for the rest of the season or not. He doesn't need to impress anyone to further his own career and should be purely thinking about the results of the club (which he should be anyway as he is the captain), and if that means sacrificing himself, then so be it. He doesn't lose out if he doesn't play, his career is over in 6 months, whether he plays or not. Surely he'd just want us to have the best chance of winning rather than being selfish?

Also, with the sticking with the players that got us here comment that Lennon made. Won't we have played at least a round of this like a year ago? We were in a totally different place a year ago. To me, the logic of giving yourself the best chance of winning should take precedence over players that played in a few games that happened to be in the cup 11/10 months ago. The last two games where the team was changed, we have magically won the first two games in like 10 games. Why on earth would we not stick with that? Or we pick players that havent won a game in like a month?