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We should be buying quality players

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by JIMMYD1967, Feb 28, 2020.

Discuss We should be buying quality players in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. JC Anton Get yer, hats, scarfs badges & tapes

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    At the time there was no guarantee Griff was going to return to form..

    A ST was indeed a priority, maybe spurred Griif on more too.
     
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  2. Heb Celt

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    Eddie worked out just fine and we’ll treble that £9mil when we sell him.Only player I can think of that we spent decent money on and was literally * was Scheidt for £5mil.You do get what you pay for.
     
  3. TheHappyLoss

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    We definitely don't back our managers financially as well as we should. In saying that our team and squad should be disposing Copenhagen who weren't a good side at all
     
  4. wulliebad

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    I think a bigger problem is we keep playing players when they are clearly * or not fit.
     
  5. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    The actual figure to be spent on a player doesn't matter.

    But over the years, as a club, we are seeing a lot of £2-3million (approx) players brought in to the club who just aren't good enough. Then we see other clubs across Europe spending similar, or a little bit more (6 or 7million) and actually getting a good deal out of it.

    People want the club to spend a bit more - not necessarily spending larger sums for the same player, but being a little bit more forward thinking and bringing in players that are that half level above a 20 year old from the * end of nowhere in a 2nd tier league.

    £3.5million gets you a Klimala - who for me looks like he could be a decent player for us. But for the club it seems that he is not ready (how, I do not know since he has been playing regular for his last club).
    But £9million gets you Edouard.

    We regularly spend £3million on a striker, to watch him do diddly squat, but one look at what happens when you do actually push the boat out, and it's night and day.

    £7million got us Julien - £3.5million got us Simunovic and Sviatchenko. Again, that difference is night and day.

    The difference between these players isn't just the price tag, but that Julien was already an established player at 26 years old. Edouard was younger but he proved it at OUR level the year before.

    It's tricky, because we clearly can not sign players at £10million+ from the EPL or Bundesliga etc, but we can shop in the market that is just below that, the one where you find a Sinclair at £4million or a Julien at £7million.



    Anyway, all that aside, that still isn't the crux of the issue with this weeks disappiontment, nor when folk are generally asking for us to spend a bit more -= not on a specific figure, but more in bringing the right quality in needed areas.
    No issues with bringing Soro or Klimala in, but we needed to spend more (overall) in January on bringing in another CB. If that was a reasonably established centre back from Holland at £2.5million or an experienced, about to hit his prime £7million player from France, doesn't matter, we needed another of that calibre in and we did not do it.


    Our limit for a season in spending money seems to be around 8-12 million a year - yet we bring in so much more and are starting to hoard money now. No one is asking for £7million players in all 11 positions and the same for backup, but we are asking that the core spine of a team is made up of the calibre of player that that sort of money will bring in - ready made!


    Going in to next season, we really need to do the transfers early (we say this every year and we know it never happens), we need to be going in to the season with 3 main centre backs, that we are comfortable using (Julien, Ajer A.Other) and then a youth prospect that is actually breaking in to the match day squad (Welsh?). Thats 4 CB's we want to be going forward with, and THEN we talk about Elhamed and Bitton able to cover if NEEDED!
    I see some folk defend the transfer activity of only bringing one CB in during the summer with the notion that Elhamed can play there as well - he is not and should not be the answer to the CB issue, he is the backup when all other answers have failed (injuries mainly).

    A CB 4 of Ajer, Julien A.Other and Welsh isn't breaking the bank - Julien is £7million, Ajer was 500k and Welsh is "free" is it so much to ask that our 4 CB's of reasonable quality can cost around £13million?
    And before anyone says 'we cant buy success' or 'money doesnt guarentee a player' - yes it does, hence there is a difference between the signings we make and the signings the rest of the league makes. That difference in spending money = a treble treble and a potential 9iar.
    For those about to say 'Simunovic cost us £3.5million and look at how that turned out, so what gurantees does spending £5-7million make?' again, look at Julien, alternatively look at Van Dijk who cost less. Thats the key to scouting and the ability to use hindsight. Simunovic was a decent purchase at the price and what we hoped to get, but again he was 20 when he signed, and proved a risk - one that overall hasnt worked, this happens. What isn't good is that 5 years later we are still using him and not actually willing to improve upon him!

    Some times players don't work out, some times those players cost more than others - it happens. But generally speaking if you spend a little bit more, you are likely to get a better player - after scouting and deeming the player worth the fee. Clearly no one is suggesting we just starting paying more money on the same dross we are signing at times.

    The same principle should be used throughout the various departments of the squad. A mix of actual quality for what we want to achieve (in Europe) and bleeding through properly our own youth and even the odd foreign youth we are deeming to be the next 'gem'.


    TLDR: scout better, spend a little more on quality at our level and not so much on hopeful projects. Cover the squad in a combination of good standard, youth and the odd 'gem'.
     
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  6. rudebhoy67 Gold Member Gold Member

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    We are short on cover as things stand anyway. We went into a European second leg still in the balance with a half fit Cm, a half fit winger, 2 guys that need about 4 weeks of playing to get up to speed and a CB playing at rb.

    It's no coincidence that the best players in our squad have either come through the academy or come with a big price tag.

    We got rid of some deadwood in january and just brought in different deadwood. That was a vital window and we made a bit of a * of it again.
     
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  7. JIMMYD1967

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    Fantastic post and spot on.
     
  8. Dan Breen

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    So true.
     
  9. CookieMonster Geez yer cookies Gold Member

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    The model is hit and miss, no club is always going to bring in quality players consistently with our budget size.

    They have shown some flexibility on it though in the last 2 years in buying Eddy and Jullien who were proven quality. If we get Fraser back as well thats a good sign. We will always continue to buy cheap players though in the hope we can turn them into top players and sell on.

    Frimpong, Hatem, Taylor all look good buys for low money this season. Though for every Hatem you get a Bayo who clearly isn’t ready for 1st team football.
     
  10. Britwell bhoy Gold Member Gold Member

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    Aswell as getting some quality we should be utilising some of our youngsters . We have players like Dembele Welsh Robertson Henderson Connel Oconner Okoflex Afalobi who should be getting more chances to be around matchday squads .
     
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  11. Officer Doofy Come to me, human man Gold Member

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    Our recruitment for years now has been mental at times. Regularly spending upwards of £2 million on guys who don’t get a look in or just aren’t good enough.

    In the last few years we’ve paid those types of fees for Bayo, Shved, Klimala, Soro, Eboue and Boli.

    Shved and Eboue probably being the two most frustrating as neither were or have been given a real chance. Klimala and Soro are just in the door but the former has barely been given a minute and the latter has made the bench once.

    Bayo is clearly not good enough and it appears Boli has been bombed out.

    Complete waste of money for most of them, with the two new guys yet to be seen whether they will cut it. However the early signs aren’t amazing if they can barely even make the match day squad.
     
  12. BathBhoy

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    There will always be an element of buying players that we hope we can sell on for a large profit, and rightly so.

    However the manager needs to be on board with this. I don't think Rodgers was, and I'm not sure about Lenny.
    Dropping Schved from the Europa squad in order to add Soro and Klimala, then not even have them on the bench, suggests Lenny isn't interested in developing players for sale.
     
  13. muaythai postie

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    I just want to see new signings who are a good age good enough to go straight into the team like they did when I was younger, now we sign * who go straight into the development squad. Other than jullian who have we bought recently and has gone straight in.
     
  14. _DannyBhoy_ Gold Member Gold Member

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    Frimpong came in from City and despite never playing a professional game before came in got a run in the side and has impressed massively.

    Compare that to Soro, Klimala and Shved who are slightly older, have had first team football experience and have barely got a sniff.

    Playing new players in the first team is surely the best way to settle them. Not giving them chances and playing them in the reserves must be more unsettling than anything else.
     
  15. DuffyBhoy

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    I think we're a really weird club when it comes to transfers, meaning at the type of player we can buy. We are a far bigger club than the level we play at suggests, and we also play in a country with a poor reputation for football and lifestyle, merited or not.

    We've been put out of europe the last 10 years or so, by decent teams, with decent pedigree, like Copenhagan, AEK etc, etc. we dwarf them in size as clubs and by wage budgets but they always have a handful or right tidy good players who tend to go on and do something in football, especially the Scandinavians. and they sign players from Africa and South America all the time, where i assume we also scout.

    But i think due to agents and players knowing we can pay more than other euro clubs at our level we get used to hike up prices and probably get much higher wage demands put in front of us than these other clubs, which i would imagine would make Pistol Pete pull the plug pretty rapid.

    Anyway to tie up this ramble in my opinion its harder than ever for us to make the right move on players due to alot of factors, alot of talent might see themselves playing in Denmark, mid table Holland clubs, Belgium over us, we make a great stepping stone but don't offer a great brand or style to ply their trade.
     
  16. PaulM1888 Moderator Moderator Gold Member

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    Our transfer policy has bore VVD, Wanyama, Forster and Dembele in recent years for about 5 or 6 million and made us 50 million. Not including Eddy who will make us 20 million plus.

    A loss and folk just post negative fabricated pish.
     
  17. Dublin Celt

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    The model isn't wrong, it's that the model is at odds with the managers philosophy and you can't blame Lennon because up until a few weeks ago most felt the.league was gonna go down to the wire and he would be * if we dropped unnecessary points blooding young players ahead of the established team. But if all goes to plan and we can put the league to bed asap, edoaurd jullien Christie McGregor Forrest brown should be sent on holidays in april..

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    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  18. Dublin Celt

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    We shouldn't consider anything less than 40mil for edoaurd.. the composure the other night under massive pressure is invaluable and he is a top club player wherever he decides to go

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  19. PaulM1888 Moderator Moderator Gold Member

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    20 million plus over his fee I should have specified!

    He’s going nowhere for a penny less than 35 million.
     
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  20. Dublin Celt

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    Personally I think we need to push the boat out to keep him for another year.. the dream would be give him a year extension, let him get even better and sell him summer 2021

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