Brendan Fraudgers!

Half joking .. seriously though it does make me wonder what someone like Clarke would manage.
I'm not calling for BR to be binned, I stand by what I said after the killie game and how the next 5/6 weeks worth of games being important. So far we have won the cup game and the league game, both of which was must win. Now we have seen another european defeat after a change for the second half. Next up we have a couple of tricky league games coming up (St Johnston away and Hibs at home) both need to be won so that we have some momentum heading into Leipzig away and hearts in the semi. The tactics/set up worry me enough and thats ignoring the likely performance of the team.

We could argue/debate about forward planning and egos (I dont think PL worries about that at all tbh) etc but for me it boils down to this - Do I think the squad he has is capable of getting better results if they are set up differently and I think the answer is yes. Under previous managers , MON/WGS/Lenny, we could punch above our weight at times, under BR that simply hasn't happened.
The other thing is even at liverpool, who provided a budget we don't have, his european record wasn't that great. Although if we are honest domestic performances aren't that easy on the eye either.

 

Maybe he's only being given the money that buys bang average players? Maybe that's actually our level? Oh occasionally we get lucky and buy a diamond like Dembele but there's not so many of them floating about. No doubt about it he has to toe the party line and say everythings cushty. He can hardly put his hands up and say "sorry guys but this is the clubs level of affordability at the moment. I know these guys are below par but this is the way it is". Aye that would go down well. He's had to make do and ultimately it hasn't worked. He carries the can because he's the manager and it takes the eye off the real culprits.

If he goes who do we get that's better? Where do we go from Brendan Rodgers? I would like someone to tell me that. He imo is above some of the bang average managers we've had. We've had very few that actually made a difference. If he goes it sends out a message that decent managers will ultimately fall by the wayside at Celtic. The club has shown lack of commitment to a guy who has brought us success....see how that message is sent out. No other decent manager will want to touch us with a barge pole and we'll end up with a slippy type character. Some folk need to be careful of what they wish for. Imo the wrong people will do the walking away from the club.

 

Sorry I disagree. Lustig has been dire for a long time now and Hendry isn't anywhere near the level. The strikers are bang average and ok at spfl level to a degree. The midfield without Broony is lost. Cham for me is a let down. Sinclair is average and will now and again bail us out. The only folk I give pass marks are Broony, Forrest and KT but they can't be expected to week in week out carry the rest. Don't get me started on the goallie. No each of these guys have met better than themselves playing in the SPFL of late. You could probably cherry pick someone from each team to stand in their positions and do better. We are not the force we were because other teams have taken up the gauntlet we threw down and gotten better. Sorry of all this sounds savage but it's the way I feel. We have a gutless, shambolic, powder puff team who don't know how to fight for the jersey.

 

Jeannie I should have been clearer I was also talking domestically as well. The 3 managers I named, maybe less so under MON, but you could argue they had some pretty bang average players in the team yet they all still managed to punch above our weight. Lustig well its BR who keeps playing him, Hendry BR bought him, I think I disagree about the strikers tbh, Ntcham was bought by BR (I do think he is a good player though just not consistent) , Sinclair was bought by ... AND still gets picked by BR. Regarding the Keeper well we have bought 2 and neither have managed to replace him ..
Domestically, and in europe to a lesser extent, other teams have closed the gap mainly, imo, by working out the tactics we use and how to deal with them/nullify them, with what they have at their disposal.
No need to say sorry to me Jeannie

 

Well you know me all good manners But I'm really ticked off Yes he plays all those bang average players but it's not like he has a lot to choose from? If Ntcham is what you all think then perphaps he's simply surrounded by the wrong kind of players for him. My point here is we don't have a whole lot better sitting on the bench and most of what we have really is bang average. Yes other teams are sitting in against us but we still see real nuggets of talent in those sides. Our defence is woeful and everyone knows how to exploit it. Is that really the managers fault at this moment in time? We've been cursed by injury and lack of investment. Yes tactics have a lot to do with it but it doesn't get away from the fact a good team in open play is capable of taking us down and an even better team will rip us wide open. I stand by what I say and I don't believe there's a manager out there that would get any better from this lot.

 

What I don’t understand is in the 1st we were solid defensively and scored an important goal. All we needed was to actually retain the * ball and take the pressure of for spells.

Then * knows what was said at half time cause we lost the shape, weren’t as disciplined defensively and continued to loose the ball in dangerous areas.

The weak links of the team are so * obvious in the mainstays of Lustig and Gordon, no real option but to play Hendry but if last night we knew we’d go defensive just put KT next to Boyata and Izzy at left back. I mean where was the point in getting Izzy if he just treats him the same as Gamboa when he plays a good game he doesn’t get near the squad for 2 months.

I’ve no idea why didn’t match their diamond in midfield either, a better option was 3 at the back with a diamond in midfield and Eddy up top with wing backs, that way we could actually get a grip of the ball and not be totally overrun in the middle.

 

I don't think Brendan's reaction after the John McGinn saga suggests he is the type of man to "carry the can" or take the blame for the "real culprits". Eboue was a signing he was thrilled about, he got 3 million to sign him, and he has had zero impact. Hendry, as you have stated in another post, is nowhere near the standard we need. Then there is others like Gamboa, Compper, DDV.

I am in no means saying Brendan should go but he is not blameless in all of this - that is my point.

Board and Brendan need to work together to solve this. We have regressed massively since Brendan's first season. The lack of recruitment and the lack of quality is badly showing. The fact we replaced Eddy and Griff last night with Christie and Morgan speaks volumes.

January is an opportunity for the board to put things right and Brendan needs to make sure the targets he wants are of the right level.

 

Jeannie - the wage bill for this bang average team is alarming. We are paying some players 30K at present. That is a massive waste of resources. Rodgers is spending money on wages which is crippling the club on very poor players. This is a major problem. Too many deadwood players in the squad

 

I'm not saying that he's entirely blameless as I acknowledge those poor signings but I think he's had a wake up call to the actual money he really has available. These wages are poor by EPL standards so maybe he's been forced to reassess his ambitions. Some of his signings have let him down but we do shop in the bargain basement despite those inflated wages. I believe there's a player in Gamboa who for some reason isn't being given a chance. I believe the same about Eboue. Morgan and Christie are probably seen by the board to be about our level in the spfl. They can do a job at this level. The problem I think is the gap between our expectations and belief we are a big club and what is actually happening. The club seems to be self imploding at times. Compper is the one that really sticks in the craw as I view him as a chancer who talked up a good story, got his foot in the door, a wage in the bank and sits back on sick row. Probably had no intention of killing himself at this stage in his career. The rest that we question Hayes, Sinclair, Morgan and Christie are at best squad players and will come in and do a job at spfl level. We may or may not have a find in the likes of Eddy and Cham but to be honest neither works hard enough for me. They do just enough to keep them in the shop window and will rake in a decent fee somewhere in the not too distant future......because that's what we've essentially become. I agree the management and the board need to sit down and come to some sort of understanding as to what they want from this club.

 

I agree with you but in terms of money available, Salzburg apparently paid 8.5 million for their starting 11 and we spent more than that on Eddy alone. It just goes to show how important scouting is and Salzburg are the type of club we should be looking to follow.

100% couldn't agree more regarding Eddy and Ntcham regarding their effort levels, although Eddy scored last night, I though him and Ntcham both looked like beaten players who's work rate was poor.

 

The difference is that Salzburg can sign players from anywhere without all the onerous visa carry on. If we had the freedom they seem to have we wouldn't be having this discussion. I don't believe we paid anywhere near 9 million for Eddy. Most likely his former club, amongst other things, has a huge sell on clause put into the contract more out of hope than expectation. Celtic are becoming known for signing the odd bargain and selling them on for a fortune. Perhaps the whole thing of getting more out of them and puting them in Europes shop window has something to do with what and how we pay as well as our relationship with other clubs. Really good players might not be so keen to come here. The Dembele fiasco and other want aways like Boyata aren't actually sending out positive messages. Might be a while before we again rake in a profit from a player like Dembele. This model works fine if you're keeping your eye on the rest of the playing side. Too many times a good player is plucked from the group, sold on and not replaced. Ultimately it's all about money.

 

Any manager that repeatedly plays Lustig and Hendry needs * sacked

 

BR “The players are disappointed, like we all are, but we have to move on to our next challenge. I never dwell on it too much.”

BR: “The two Leipzig games will be very important for us but our priority now is the next game.”


BR: “We’re working towards consistency. I am fortunate to have a group of honest players who work very hard.”

BR: “Scott Brown will be out for the weekend but will rejoin training after the International break.”


BR: “I thought Youssouf came in and did very well. He fought and showed his qualities.


BR: “I think the league will be very competitive this year. It will be a challenge but I expect us to get better and better.


BR: “Tom Rogic is available. Filip Benkovic will train so we’ll see how he is


BR: “We always fight and we always work. The players who we have are fantastic guys and will give everything going into the game

 

We are already consistent in Europe

 

Jeannie he has brought in a fair few players in his time here, so who's fault is it if his options are still limited ? Sure the board could have added more, although that then takes us to the existing wage bill - I said it was high when I read the accounts and I stand by that, but I'm not sure that would have altered much anyway either other than increase the wage bill.
When teams sit in against us it's up to BR to work a way out to combat that. The defence, imo, is his fault he has had a couple of years to see that now.
I do wonder what the likes of Clarke could do with a squad like we have, by using his more pragmatic approach, which has certainly worked against us. However I'm still not saying BR should be binned but he needs to be held accountable for his shortcomings and not have them covered by the it's all someone else's fault argument.

 

I think the "fact" that the team and the Manager are not at their best is a given
The "fact" that signing and strengthening has NOT been done is a given
We have compacency and we need it to change - that is Rogers job and he needs the club support

BUT in my opinion, to put that into context, last night we faced one of the best teams we have stood infront of for ages. We were poor, but they looked pretty freekin good.
Statistics can be misleading but to give you something comparible Transfer Market has RB Salzburg squad valued at 45% more than Celtics (and out squad is larger) Their top 5 players are valued in excess of £60million or top 5 dont even make the 30million mark

Calling for Rodgers head and suggesting replacements is maybe a little premature

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/red-bull-salzburg/marktwertanalyse/verein/409
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/celtic-glasgow/marktwertanalyse/verein/371

 

I've said time and again that I agree that he's needs to be accountable for his signings but I've highlighted that fact that even that might not all be under his control or his fault for one reason or another. Who says that he didn't have defenders in mind? But the buck always seems to stop at the manager and it's my belief there's far more than him to blame. What happened during the transfer window spoke volumes about how our board like to do things. We don't know all that's happened before. As fans we're not privy to what's really going on or who actually makes the signings. I do get what your saying about tactical nous. Maybe though we're not breaking other teams down because we no longer have the personnel capable of doing it. We keep hammering at a shut door when playing other teams and we don't seem to have the creativity needed to get through. When we do get chances we blow them. Again we get back to the players.

These teams that sit in against us have only highlighted our current weaknesses. A Paddy or Moussa might have found a way around them. We must still present a threat though otherwise these teams wouldn't be sitting in against us. On the other hand good teams will try to exploit our defensive frailties so we have to do better middle to front. Problem is that the middle to front isn't all that great either. I don't think it matters how he tries to play tactically because we still have major problems with the personnel that we have. No manager is going to get the likes of Lustig and Hendry any better and it would take some serious attitude adjustment to improve others who think that they're better than they are. There's been too many changes since Dembele, Armstrong and Paddy left. No real competition for places. Eddy isn't entirely ready and Griff (much as I love his commitment) is an SPFL player at best. Sinclair is nowhere near the player he was. The midfield is in a constant state of flux where more often that not Brown is the only one that turns up. Kt is the only defender I would trust out the whole lot of them. Boyata still has mistakes in him. With a bit more courage and heart we might have got something last night and maybe that's what's lacking. Is it Brendans fault if they lack courage or heart?

 

Starting to think he's less and less of a manager with every game.