Earthlings

Meat is great in a balanced diet. Adding protein, vitamins and minerals in your diet and it * tastes great. I'm not saying eat nothing but meat and eat meat to excess.

Some studies have found that a vegetarian diet was likely to cause DNA changes which leaves populations more open to inflammatory disease and cancer in the long run. Now, that isn't a reason to cut vegetables out of your diet completely. Its shows the importance of a balanced diet.

You don't have to take it to extremes and cut out meat completely from your diet to stay health. Their is a middle ground and once you find it there is zero reason to not eat meat every now and again.

 

See, my issue here is that I've never really spoken to anyone who changed to a vegetarian diet and went on to become less healthy.

Most people that I know (as well as myself) have only ever really seen the benefits of a meat-free diet. Speaking personally I feel lighter, more energetic, stronger, happier and I've also lost weight.

It really does come down to the individual, but I don't think I've ever went to a restaurant and seen a fat, unhealthy looking * sit down and order from the veggie menu.

 

Well that is grand and all but its still anecdotal evidence. I eat meat most days and feel good, again anecdotal evidence.

No reasonable person is going to say that eating meat in moderation is going to put you on deaths door while eating rabbit food will make you a centenarian by default.

Working in restaurants for a fair few years I can say I've seen it happen. For most people they say they ordered from the veggie menu cause it looked good.

Which is as good a reason for eating something as anything else.

 

Then why wouldn't those people who have more knowledge of nutrition and health in general remain on a meat-inclusive diet if it's better for you than a plant-based diet? Surely they'd be in a position to know that if it were the case, wouldn't they?

 

Obviously not, as you have to take other factors into account, don't you? Being a vegetarian isn't really going to do you much good if you smoke like a chimney and get pished four nights a week, is it?

I get the distinct impression that you're a tad anti-vegetarian to be honest, with phrases like "rabbit food" and your claim that veganism is a "stupid lifestyle fad".

Such chat places you firmly alongside the ignorant, annoying berks who preach about the kind of * you saw in that movie. You're stereotyping, belittling and generalising when using such language, which is a bit mental considering you normally post in a reasonable manner most of the time.

Regardless, I guess time will tell. One thing I do know is that the meat industry is doing some serious damage to the planet, and this is driven by demand from people for meat.

In fact, it's been said that meat eating at the levels happening today is second only to fossil fuel vehicles when it comes to the most hazardous environmental factors facing the planet, which is pretty startling.

Hopefully I'll be long gone before the scales tip completely, but we're seeing predictions that cancer rates will rise by anything up to 70% in the next 20 years, obesity is rising and the planet is being mangled.

Good times ahead.

 

Nail on the head.

 

Well obviously.

I don't get what your arguing for. I'm saying have a balanced diet and their is no reason to give up meat. That isn't controversial.

But you want to be holier-than-thou just for its own sake, based on nothing but anecdotal evidence. Eat yours greens along with meat and you'll be fine.

Its not a case of one or the other.

It is a stupid lifestyle fad for westerns urbanites and do-gooders

Never mind that it impossible to be a vegan, eating their carrots fertilised with cow * or using up all the medicine first tested on animals which kill all the bad cells inside them. Or looking out their glass windows with animal products in them as they ponder the suffering of snails (nice with garlic butter btw).

Whatever way you look at it, Veganism through personal choice is * stupid and unnecessarily restrictive for something which no controlled trials have shown to be better for you (and without the wonders of modern science could be deadly).

Well, what can you do? If something is a stupid lifestyle fad how can I be nice about it when criticising it?

And products that vegetarians and vegans use heavily are destroying the environment too, no one is clean here. Fires started the clear land for soya and palm oil etc in Indonesia are producing more green house gases every day than everything in the US does in 26 days.

Vegetarians also eat things like cheese so that cattle problem is their problem too.

Of course this isn't a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater and use none of these things. Its a reason for improving our farming methods, land use and whatnot.

 

It's called a discussion, people post their own findings, opinions and experiences, which is what I've done. Can you point out where I've been "holier-than-thou"? I actually went to great lengths to point out how the holier-than-thou types on this subject can be infuriating!

I haven't been bashing those who wish to eat meat as part of their diet, other than to suggest that the means by which such a diet finds it way to your plate isn't having the best impact on the environment.

Or folk who simply want to be healthier? Like I said, I tried the diet out and it worked wonders for my health and wellbeing. * all to do with being a "do-gooder".

Again with more generalising and ill-thought out put-downs. You're letting yourself down in this thread, mate. Not quite sure why to be honest, as it's obviously not a subject that you give a * about by the looks of it. Did a vegan * your bird or something?

I've never really mentioned the requirements to join the vegan club to be honest, and I don't think there is a universally accepted definition of the term. You'll also notice that I rarely ever refer to myself as a vegetarian, preferring to just point out that I dropped meat from my diet.

Will I try and drop dairy produce completely? Possibly, but it's not something I'm pondering to any great length. I'll do what I did with meat and leave it out for a bit. If the results seem to benefit me then I'll remain on that course. I certainly won't be abiding by any set of rules (if any such things exist) that qualify me as a vegan/vegetarian or whatever.

It obviously benefits some people, otherwise it wouldn't be as popular. I doubt there are that many * out there intentionally missing out on their ham and cheese sanny just so they can consider themselves a "do-gooder" or a trendy type.

Also, without the wonders of modern science plenty would be deadly! I'm not sure what your point there is!

Who said anyone was "clean"? We all use appliances, drive cars, wear clothes and so forth, so we're all affecting the planet to a certain degree.

All I'm saying is that the production of meat on the scale that we're seeing today is the 2nd most harmful environmental thing affecting the planet.

We won't see improvements in our farming methods or land use, because the demand for meat has become too great nowadays. It's production on a massive scale, and it's not going to slow down any time soon.

 

Not even gonna bother with it.

 

'Coming out' as a vegetarian/vegan leaves you open to a lot of ridicule, mockery and just downright stupid questions in my experience. Only something like 1.5-2% of the UK population are vegetarian.

Scots probably eat the most meat per capita in the world :smiley-laughing002:

 

I've never understood this "announcing" yourself as a vegetarian or vegan to be honest, unless you're after attention.

If you don't want to eat meat just don't do it, it's that simple. Likewise if you want to eat meat, batter in. Whatever blows you hair back and all that jazz.

 

Aye I didn't mean it like that, I didn't hold a press conference :smiley-laughing002:

Just when you're out for a meal or going up to someone's house for dinner it's obviously something that comes up.

 

Refuse to watch that Earthlings.

Strange, as I can sit and watch video after video of humans brutally murdering other humans etc without batting an eye lid but as soon as it's an animal getting mistreated I can't stomach it.

 

You seem ill at ease. You actually seem as though you are very irritated and i agree with Daibhi that your tone is not typical of you in other threads or topics.

You can mock 'speciesism' all you like, (i think its a bit corny myself), but i personally am very suspicious of anyone who shows a lack of sympathy and empathy toward animals.

Granted, you have to draw a line somewhere.....as you point out, cancer and viruses are species too, but being uber logical is not necessary as we are not in imminent danger of disappearing as a species ourselves.......so, no, we dont have to portray an attitude whereby we ignore the welfare of other species simply because it is 'natural' to look after No1. It is clear to me that we as a species will never evolve if we continue to think along those lines.
What is the point of our species living longer and healthier? What is the point to you?
You talk about vital vivisection......what, for perfume, *? Even the vast majority of research into medicine is a complete waste of time, and is only done for commercial gain, not for us as a species.

As i have said, i am not anti meat eating, but i do think they should be treated well until they die, and going by the huge rise in the sale of products such as free range eggs etc, i think the general public agree. Yes, most of us turn a blind eye most of the time, and baulk at the thought of paying a little more, but people do care.....not all people, some seem to have a missing chromosome, but most of us to varying degrees do care.

Did you actually watch it? It wasnt all about veggies as you alluded to......what about the abuses in the pet industry, fur farms etc?

Here is an anti vivisection piece. Id be more than happy to read a pro vivisection piece to get a balance.

http://www.vivisectioninfo.org/faq.html

edit-i should say, that i am not completely anti vivisection when it comes to looking for cures to disease etc, as i do know it does come up with answers periodically, but for me, again, they should at least be anaesthetised.....but of course, that would cost more money.........shareholders wouldnt like that would they?

 

And then there is just going round in circles.

Well you did call Sean Daleer's diet a "recipe for disaster" based on absolutely no evidence at all.

You still haven't shown how a meat free diet is better for you than a balanced diet that involves meat. Its all anecdotes, which means nothing at all.

Vegans are do-gooders. The evidence for Veganism being better for you than a normal balanced diet is weak at best, and pure anecdotes at worst.

It takes more than just a few weak reports of the health effects of meat to go onto a diet as restrictive as Veganism for a health person - as you prove. To become something as un-natural as a vegan is a political choice.

Well it is, if only because they * me off.

The main problem is that if their ideas ever became big and mainstream (which will never happen) then they are down right dangerous.

If they got their way in regards to animal testing the results would be disastrous for humanity, as we lose a crucial method in improving human health and developing cures and preventions for diseases.

If these fools had their way we'd never have found out more about the genetics of cancer tumours. Amazingly 50 to 60% of the gains we have made in cancer survival rates since 1975 have come from new drugs, developed from animal testing. Overall, these medicines have increased life expectancy at birth in the United States by 10.7%, unthinkable if these morons had their way.

Or we'd wouldn't have seen that Folic Acid helps prevent serious birth defects of the brain and spinal cord when taken before conception and early in pregnancy when we did. Since it was shown to do that in animals it has saved thousands of new borns from having birth defects.

The list is endless.

Argumentum ad populum.

A balanced diet that involves meat is what humans evolved to eat and isn't deadly in itself. Veganism on the other hand is unsustainable without modern advancements (seen in the fact no human society has every functioned with a majority vegan population).

You can't get Carnosine or Vitamin B12 for example. You need to take supplements or take fortified foods.

No one, but you are using cattle farming as a stick to beat meat eaters. Which is pot, kettle, black.

The greater demand for food is the exact reason why we'll see improvements in farming methods and land use. Its the reason why we've seen all the developments we have so far.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Agricultural_Revolution

Or look at China and its massive population boom, brought about by improved farming. Having 10% of arable land worldwide, it produces food for 20% of the world's population and China will only improve as time goes on.

I bet that line of thought will go down well. "No sir, this hospital won't treat you because humans, as a species, are not in danger of going extinct".

Right.......

 

Again, welcome to a discussion on the internet. It's what we do. Feel free to bail out of the discussion at any time.

That wasn't based on him eating meat, it was based on him saying he'd go for whatever was cheap or something to that effect. Cheap is usually cheap for a reason, and well worth checking into before bought and consumed.

Are you under the impression that I'm trying to convince people to go meat-free? Apologies if that's how it came across, as it couldn't be further from the truth.

I've said on at least one occasion that I don't talk to anyone about my diet when I'm out with friends, so if I'm not trying to convince my friends why the * would I care what some folk on the internet do?

I'm simply discussing the points being made, and offering my opinion & personal experience. That's all, nothing more.

What about vegetarians? Are they do-gooders? As that's probably what I'd be classified as and I personally couldn't give a * how many pigs, sheep or cows are put to death every week.

The diet I have is purely to benefit one person. Me.

It has * all to do with politics, do-gooding or any other pish that you wish to bring up in an attempt to stereotype people.

And call it anecdotal all you want, but the truth is if this diet didn't benefit me I'd be right back on that meat wagon ASAP. I have no moral issue with eating meat.

The (anecdotal) truth is that since switching over I've lost weight, my skin is clearer, I'm fitter, I feel better, I sleep better, and my cholesterol and blood pressure is fantastic according to my (non-vegan) doctor.

So, take that as you will. If anyone is on the fence about trying out a non-meat diet I'd certainly advise them to at least give it a bash and see how they get on. If it's not for them then no harm done, you can always switch back to your old diet whenever you like.

And if you love your burgers and could never switch, then fair play. To each their own.

And pointless, as it will never happen, right? you're basically getting yourself in a tizz about something you admit is never going to be mainstream! :smiley-laughing002:

Modern science has given us many things that wouldn't be possible otherwise, one of them being a vegan diet. What of it?

Absolute nonsense, I'm simply stating a fact. Would I be using the automobile industry as a stick to beat drivers when I point out the damage that exhaust fumes do to our environment? Get a grip.

Cool link, but that doesn't explain how an industry that is basically destroying the planet to keep up with demand is going to suddenly make a complete u-turn in that respect when the population on the planet continues to grow, and when more and more meat is required.

What was going on in the early 1900's has * all to do with the mass production of meat on a global scale today.

Seriously mate, you've come apart at the seams a bit in this thread for some reason. Usually you're the balanced, sensible voice of reasons but here you are busting out GIF's and Latin phrases like the rest of us do! :smiley-laughing002:

 

Being a science student, I've asked a good few vegans their views on animal testing in medicine. Everyone says that although unfortunate, it's a necessity.

So Aye, grouping people again. Idk how people refusing to eat an animal which has likely been mistreated it's whole life can be so offensive to some people.

And this "do-gooders" pish. What the * is that about man?