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Virgil van Dijk

Discussion in 'Ex Players' started by DutchCelticFan, Jun 21, 2013.

Discuss Virgil van Dijk in the Ex Players area at TalkCeltic.net.

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  1. McManus4

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    If we are unable to spend what we bring in on transfer fees then you are saying the club needs to sell to operate.

    If that's true then operating costs need to be cut. We shouldn't need to sell to survive. Any sales should go to the transfer budget.
     
  2. Bi-Winning

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    Yeah I think you have a good point Roys Keane, but its not as simple as that either.

    Celtic are a profitable club, selling players is only a fraction of our income. We have made a fortune in recent years on transfers, surely there comes a point where there is spare coin to be spent.
     
  3. Officer Doofy Come to me, human man Gold Member

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    :50:

    It's getting tiresome seeing people saying "look what happened to the huns". * off. That's not the case here.

    We have the money to spend £5 million on a single player, the board just don't do it because their tight.
     
  4. Senna s1979

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    And if we reduce the running costs the fans moan about 'downsizing' like they have done since Martin O'Neill left!!

    The club can't win. And thank * there are people being paid handsome sums of money for their expertise in how to run PLC's and not half the fans with their pub economics.

    We could pay £5milion for a player. PL said so himself. It's then a case of a) getting the player who is worth that to come here and b) affording his wages. Stoke and Newcastle can pay those players £40k a week, his agent £2million and his club £5million.
    We cannot.
    You think the player is gonna drop £15k a week and his agent £1-1.5million to come here coz we are a 'speshul club man'?
     
  5. Liam Scales Gold Member Gold Member

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    If we need that tansfer money to stay afloat and not be like Rangers we aren't being run fantastically.
     
  6. shendr18

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    we never had champions league this season though

    so looking at 10million to make up for and i dont think eurpoa league gave us that

    need to reach the group stages this season

    Is it being double to 20million this season??
     
  7. Liam Scales Gold Member Gold Member

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    Peter Lawwell has said we don't budget for Europe though.

    The season we reached the last 16, we recieved £20m odd for the Champions League and the same in transfers for Wanyama, Hooper and Kelvin Wilson.

    It wasn't reinvested in the squad, a small amount was. Some was used to service debt, which for all intents and purposes no longer exists.

    Going by Lawwell's word we lose £10m a year because 'No Huns'.

    So... what's the story there, if we can't afford to re-invest that in the squad, when according to Lawwell that should be bonus money because we don't budget for it, then all I can say is we are being mismanaged because that has been mismanaged.

    The moneys not there in the bank so is it being used for running costs? If so that's mismanagement when an extra £40m income you haven't budgeted for is needed to keep the club solvent or as Roys Keane said to not go the way of Rangers, yes?

    Personally, I think Lawwell's a * liar but that's based on taking him at face value.
     
  8. Roy's Keane

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    Boom :celt_2:

    They * believe it too. The genuinely think they have worked it out and that we should be spending more money because of the most basic of * packet ramblings.

    Stirring stuff.
     
  9. Roy's Keane

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    Aye mate, you've got me there right enough. You're bang on.

    Let's cut cost shall we, great idea, where do I sign?

    Can you have a full profit and loss balance sheet for me by half ten tonight and we'll go through the figures tomorrow yeah?

    * sake! It's like you actually expect me to take your point on and disprove them. In reality none of us are versed one * iota on how a PLC makes money available to spend players or not, so lets not play this stupid wee game eh?

    It's like a toddler and a giraffe trying to solve cancer one afternoon. Give it a break ffs.

    :smiley-laughing002:
     
  10. Sean Daleer Free Palestine Gold Member

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    I used to be one of the people moaning about not spending what we bring in in transfer fees. I've since started to understand that this isn't a feasible idea. To keep up the current level we are at we have to make some sacrifices.

    That however, doesn't explain PL's insistence that we are a stand alone club. We don't need Europe or the dead club to survive. Yet all the signs point to the contrary, including PL himself saying that we are suffering without the dead club.

    I'm all for balancing the books and making sure we don't go the way of the dead club but there has to be a line in the sand, we can't keep cutting costs all the time or we will never go anywhere.

    That's all very well for the faithful, the lads who show up week in week out and will continue to do so no matter what. However it's the 20,000 or so who returned for the title party, we need to entice them back to CP and away from the EPL on Sky. The only way to do that is to excite them early in a window. Let Ronny identify a player he really wants and go out and * buy him, early, with no quibbling just buy him and give us the best chance of qualifying.

    I'm guessing that would be a striker, lets go out and spend 3 or 4 million on a player that Ronny really wants and watch the ST sales rocket.

    Even if it doesn't work out we still have the extra ST sales and VVD moving on to balance the books.

    I'm a lot less critical of the board than I was 5 years ago but there comes a time when you have to take a calculated risk for the greater good.
     
  11. Liam Scales Gold Member Gold Member

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    That's the long and short of it mate, either Lawwel is consistently lying to us or else we are run * horrendously.

    One or the other.
     
  12. Roy's Keane

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    Buying a striker of around 3 to 4 million is perfectly feasible, that's a long way away from spending all the VVD money on replacements just because people think it's available to do so, when it clearly isn't.

    Of course we want exciting transfers that will get the fans flocking back but does that exist for £3 million these days? I'm not sure.

    A lot has been said about this "standalone club" but what does it mean really. Whether we qualify for Europe or wether we have Karma FC in our division is just an arithmetic formula which spits out what we need to do to ensure survival for the next year and beyond.

    Of course we don't need them to survive, but we can't thrive as much without them. They are revenue feeds at the end of the day. Either way we are a standalone club. Every club is, and PL is just pointing that out for the people who think we are magically tied to their hip.

    Every signing is a calculated risk (of course) but it is unthinkable that part of any risk would involve Celtic not being able to pay it's bills, so the calculated risk would have to be within the current financial structure, so that it fails we are still "safe."

    I'm not talking economics at all, but just purely from a logical sense before the Canary Wharf Kids on here try to pick it apart and argue in fact that we do have lot's to spend. Ain't nobody got time for dat :50:
     
  13. VikingBhoy

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    We still have 6 million pounds of debt - I think once we're debt-free they might spend more money
     
  14. Roy's Keane

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    I won't comment on anything else you've said in this thread, but I am pretty sure you are much * cleverer than that post suggests :shamrock:
     
  15. Sean Daleer Free Palestine Gold Member

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    Us spending significant money on a player before we have sold anyone doesn't seem that feasible these days, at least in the eyes of the custodians of the club.

    It would put a real marker down to spend that cash long before we sell to balance the books or before we (hopefully) qualify for the CL.

    3 or 4 mill is probably a little short of what I'm trying to convey, 5 or 6 mill would be more what I mean.

    All semi decent clubs in Europe who qualify for the last 16 more often than not, have a striker who is feared in Europe. I really fell we need to push the boat out for a striker with pedigree in European competition, there must be a few who scored between 6-10 goals in the EL who wouldn't cost the earth.

    Will we need to make them our highest paid player? Probably, but sometimes you need to push the boat out for genuine quality.
     
  16. Sean Daleer Free Palestine Gold Member

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    He is right though.

    Lawwell constantly tells us we don't need European football or the dead club to survive, but all the signs point to the contrary.

    If we need European football to sustain the current model then just say that, don't treat your "customers" like mugs.
     
  17. Random Review

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    Another summer, another set of arguments about Lawwell. Funny how this guy always seems to have a real knack for dividing the support on just about any issue he involves himself in.

    Devlin, I think you have answered your own question. He's obviously a very competent man who is a complete and utter liar at times. That's what you get with Lawwell. We were all laughing last year when Stromsgodset expressed astonishment at how little compensation we offered for Deila, we were all cracking jokes about them clearly not knowing Lawwell and in the end we got our man, I'll bet for much less than he was worth. A lot is made of the fact that Arsenal wanted him and rightly so. He clearly knows what he's doing. I'm also quite impressed that he can be flexible when the risk is worth taking, e.g. not selling Hooper before the Juve game.

    On the other hand, and this is key for me, he clearly has utter contempt for a large section of our support. This shows in his involvement in the GB thing, in his populist statements about standing alone, in his lies about Roy Keane last summer, in the misleading statements about how the club is run. That's the other thing you get with Lawwell.

    I rate Lawwell and would hate to lose his expertise, but I also agree with those who think he has a poisonous effect on our club.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2015
  18. JC Anton Get yer, hats, scarfs badges & tapes

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    It's a real dilemma , spend too much and still not make qualification or spend not enough and not make qualification.

    I don't think PL is lying to us we have a business model that can survive the loss of Deadco and non-qualification for the CL, this is essential.

    If we spent 10m trying to get into the CL and didn't achieve it, this could hinder our progress for two seasons.

    Now that we've had a successful transitional season, Ronny needs backed sensibly.

    When you think about the two signings Ronny has made in GMS and Armstrong have been bang on, let's hope he continues to be a good judge in the transfer market.

    We need to keep Virgil for the qualifiers then if he's sold for 10m, it's good buisness for us.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2015
  19. Random Review

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    It's worth noting that the rushed signings and loans Lawwell authorised to save his own skin when angry crowds were gathering outside CP calling for his head were all a complete waste of money, apart from Denayer. Someone as canny as Lawwell will definitely have known that these were not good investments and yet they bought him the time he needed, so he's clearly not above putting his own skin above the long-term interests of our club.
     
  20. Liam Scales Gold Member Gold Member

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    How so?

    Do you believe that we don't bugdet for any extra transfer fees or for Champions League football?