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The Tennis Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by Markybhoy, May 16, 2014.

Discuss The Tennis Thread in the Other Sports area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. PaulM1888 Moderator Moderator Gold Member

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    Except he was contending against literally those 2 players.

    Bizarre revisionism.
     
  2. Officer Doofy Come to me, human man Gold Member

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    13 of his 20 titles were won between 2003-2008. Nadal and Djokovic were 22 and 21 respectively in 2008. So aye he was contending against them...when they were nowhere near their peak or literally not involved in the grand slams.

    Since those two have actually grown up and developed, he's been nowhere near as dominant. He's had a resurgence the last couple of years, but between 2011-2016 he won 1 grand slam.
     
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  3. Aidan O’Shea

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    Daily reminder that Djokovic is the goat.
     
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  4. kyndig

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    Nadal was playing his best Tennis around 2006-2010 mostly was a toss up between him and Federer, Djokovic started coming on around 2010, Nadal had a noticeable slip in form and injuries I think around 2014-2016, Federer went through a patch also. All 3 are great, but considering Federers age I would not say his lack of titles of late is purely down to the competition being too great, he is playing well above the standard for his age, you could argue that how he is competing now at his age proves he is better than them.
     
  5. Valhalla Thus spoke Batistuta.

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    You could.



    If you were really desperate and wanting laughed at.
     
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  6. kyndig

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    Explain.
     
  7. Valhalla Thus spoke Batistuta.

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    It’s as stupid as saying Foreman winning the world title at 45 or whatever he was proves he’s better than Ali. It’s nonsensical.

    Federer was at his most successful when there wasn’t as much competition. Everyone agrees with that.

    Since Novak/Nadal came into their peak and joined Federer at the elite of the sport, Djokovic has dominated Federer to put it bluntly.
     
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  8. PaulM1888 Moderator Moderator Gold Member

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    Federer started dominating from 2004, Rafa won his first Slam in 2005. Djokovic has been a pro since 2003 through Fed’s entire period of dominance, why does only his steroid era count to your argument?

    You are spouting pure and utter pish.
     
  9. ILoveTheCeltic

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    I'd say Federer is the best, if they were all the same age I think he'd have won more.

    Just he had already past his best when they came into their prime but even now that they are past their best and he is miles past his best he is competing with them again.

    A 38 year old Djokovic probably wouldn't get near winning a set against a 32 year old Federer. Federer being able to beat Nadal and Djokovic at this stage is a great achievement I think.
     
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  10. Slaw Gold Member Gold Member

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    Federer is the greatest tennis player of all time.
     
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  11. Aidan O’Shea

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    Federer is not ‘miles past his best’. His backhand is better now than it ever has been, for example, and his serving possibly is, too.

    Federer last beat Djokovic in 2015, so ‘this stage’ is not applicable. It’s also impossible to say what Djokovic at 38 would be like.
     
  12. Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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    Federer is the best I’ve seen. If Djokovic overtakes his slam record and is still playing to a similar standard at the same age Federer is, and is clean of doping, then there would be a legitimate argument for him.
     
  13. ILoveTheCeltic

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    Come on now....

    A large part of tennis is your fitness and speed, you need to remain quick to get around the court and you need to be as fit as possible so you don't tire and lose your composure and technique. I'd say Federer's peak was probably 9-15 years ago when he was about 23-29 year old and had experienced mixed with probably his peak physicality.

    To me Djokovic to me also is more of a fitness/quick player as opposed to a technical so he will and will decline quicker than Federer who has really only remained relevant as his technique is so good, Djokovic also good technically but being able to outrun and outlast people was a big part of his game he won't be doing that at 38.
     
  14. Aidan O’Shea

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    Federer has kept his pace and fitness, which is my point. He’s added to his game whilst maintaining his fitness, hence why he cannot be considered ‘miles’ past his best.

    Remains to be seen with Djokovic. He’s certainly not bereft of technical ability but his fitness seems ridiculous. Time will tell.
     
  15. ILoveTheCeltic

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    I don't think he has. Nobody at 35 is as fit or quick as they were at 25 unless at that age you were nowhere near fit and a fat * or something but hes been an Athlete his whole life.

    This is when i'd say they peaked...

    Federer 2004-2009
    Nadal 2008-2013
    Djokovic 2012-2016

    Federer and Nadal probably peaked earlier as they're technically better and weren't as much about running so they were good earlier and the at their best when they were fittest and Djokovic probably peaked later as he was a bit more about running and needed more experience/confidence before getting to his best.

    For me none of them were really at their bests at the same time, Djokovic's most difficult opponent when at his peak was probably Murray as Murray could match him for fitness and speed where as Nadal and Federer had already slowed down a good bit and could be outlasted. Nadal and Federer's most difficult opponents at their peak were each other but when each other weren't at their best. Federer's best opponent would have been a young Nadal and then when Nadal peaked his best opponent was an older Federer.

    I feel like Federer and Nadal have came back into contention the last 3 years because Djokovic and Murray who at their peaks were just too fit slowed down a bit physically and gave them a chance again.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  16. Officer Doofy Come to me, human man Gold Member

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    Nah.

    Federer was extremely dominant for 6 years, when Nadal and Djokovic weren’t the players they would become. That’s not spouting pish. It’s just the facts.

    Since then he’s won 7 grand slams in 11 years. Therefore as the other two, and Murray, got into their peak years, Federer’s dominance essentially came to an end.

    Also, has Djokovic been found guilty of doping?
     
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  17. Clint Eastwood The Good Bad and Ugly of TC

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    People love the idea of Federer being the best because he's such a likable character and has this aura about him. In reality he won the majority of his slams well prior to the peaks of both Nadal and Djokovic. He also has a losing record against both of them, I mean he's actually narrowed the gap on Nadal but even in Federer's prime he was well behind Nadal in that regard. He also went through a 5 year gap of not winning any slams as the other 3 as well as Wawrinka won them all. The evidence points to the fact that as Djokovic, Nadal and Murray emerged his dominance was reduced greatly and completely non-existent for several years. The fact that people have to go back to when Nadal and Novak were both teenagers as evidence that Federer is the best truly says it all. The last 4 major finals he's faced Djokovic in he's lost them all. Prior to 2017 the last 5 major finals he faced Nadal in he had 4-1 losing record including on hard-court and grass surfaces. In his last 7 major finals he's beaten Nadal once and Murray twice (while Murray was still trying to get over the mental hurdle in slam finals) the other 4 were to Roddick, Soderling and Cilic twice, not one of those finals were against Djokovic and only one being against Nadal. In fact prior to 2017's Aus victory over Rafa you'd have to go back to 2007 to when he beat either Novak or Rafa in a slam final. That's 10 years and it's been 12 years since he's beat Novak in a slam final. Surely slam finals are where the best are truly judged. I mean you may point to Federer being 37 now but he was in his prime for a lot of that time. The last time he beat Novak in a slam final Novak was what 20? The last time he beat Nadal in a slam final prior to 2017 Nadal was 21. Neither had reached their prime at that stage.

    The other measurement you can use is slam titles, Federer has 20, Novak has 16. I suppose if you're going on that basis at this stage it'd be fair to say that Federer is the best. However it is looking increasingly likely that Novak will probably equal it at the very least in the coming years barring someone else really emerging as a challenger. Novak is still in peak physical condition too. While Nadal might have another couple of RG wins in him, tho it's a tougher task for him I feel.
     
  18. PaulM1888 Moderator Moderator Gold Member

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    Forget individuals ‘peak years’ it is immaterial to the argument. Is Celtic’s 1967 European Cup win diminished because Barcelona weren’t in their ‘peak years’?

    Novak Djokovic being * at the start of his career can’t effect how Federer’s career is perceived. Or any other individual for that matter.

    Fed/Rafa and Djokovic all exist at the same time. Fed has won the most Slams during that time.
     
  19. The IRA

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    You don't half talk some *.
     
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  20. The IRA

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    Nadal and Djokovic could end up with more Grand Slams than Federer, both already have more Masters titles than him.

    Federer will end up being the third best of his generation. Not GOAT material that.