Paris...shootings and explosions

Well there are really only two "solutions" by the looks of it.

 

I think you, like a lot of people, are looking at this situation far too simplistically.

This infographic helps explain ISIS and its reach a little better;

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Solution to what? Stopping the death of innocent civilians?

And it's clearly not a solution.

 

This playing the French anthem before every match is a load of *.

 

Cringey as *.

 

Football really should just get rid of any minutes silences or symbolic gestures that aren't football related.

 

That's why I put solutions in inverted commas, there isn't really any solution that doesn't involve civilian deaths by the looks of it.

 

Just as long as you recognise that when you say civilian death you're also talking about Europeans who will pay the price as well.

 

Further attacks on 'The West' are unevitable regardless of the bombings in Syria.

Also ISIS is a problem for the millions of people in Syria and the surrounding nations, without action we are just letting them get murdered at a rate of villages and towns at a time.

The civilian casualties of bombing ISIS training camps will be far less than the civilian casualties that ISIS will themselves cause as they go around killing whoever they wish in Syria.

It's all well and good to say that bombing them is bad, but without putting forward another solution you are just letting them get on with it - which is ten times worse. For both the west and for the people of Syria.



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Wonder if they'd do it for Ireland? :smiley-laughing002:

"Sine Fine Fail...."

 

Well, it looks as though our Governments are going down the route of blasting * out of Syria anyway, so the discussion is pointless.

As I said, if destroying ISIS in Syria ends the cycle of attacks then I'll happily admit I was wrong, but I don't think it will.

 

Yes I am.

 

Cool. As I said, more bombing in Syria is exactly what ISIS want. They're trying to pick a fight, because when our Government destroy Middle-Eastern cities and inadvertently kill Muslims it simply provides ISIS with all the material they need to recruit people like the ones who attacked Paris.

By bombing Syria we're actually helping to further their agenda.

 

Aye, my street is crawling with military, stores are closing and public life has come to a halt.

It is like a war zone.

 

Stay safe mate.

 

Bingo.

Unfortunately for some it is more about revenge rather than providing a long term solution. It's exactly what IS want.

 

I don't know. Private donors in the Gulf States have been cut back massively as the Saudi's and UAE succumbed to US pressure. Kuwait and Qatar were slower to act but have got their house in order after the Kuwait mosque bombing. Of course more can still be done by those states to tackle private individuals.

Oil is still ISIS' biggest money maker, around $1 million a day. There is a great demand for mazout which is used in generators, needed as there is little to no electricity now*, bought overwhelmingly by civilians. Most oil comes from these illegal, small timers who then pay taxes on what they make to ISIS. Their not members of ISIS or anything so bombing these guys out wouldn't remove fighters from the battlefield.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZZNkxxelGg[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Z97TksiZk[/ame]

ISIS has/had some big oil refineries at al-Tabqa, Mayadin, al-Tayyaneh and al-Bukamal in Syria. Yet these are still run by their "old" workforce, with the old manager staying as the "front" man. ISIS gets truck drivers to deliver the crude oil to the refineries and in return it takes all mazout production and splits the profits on petrol production with the original owner.

Really ISIS is disengaged from the fuel production business. Making their money from zakat, or a 2.5% (or more) tax on the trade. These videos Russia put out recently of them bombing "ISIS refineries" is really them blowing up a load of innocent oil workers.

That is why stopping the "ISIS oil trade" is so hard. "ISIS' oil trade" is nothing more than extortion against locals.

* al-Assad was taking oil from ISIS in return for supplying some electricity to ISIS controlled areas earlier in the war but no longer I think.

 

Great idea, just let them keep killing people indiscriminately, in both the Middle East and Europe... that'll show them! Who knew that all you had to do to defeat a terrorist organisation was to just let them kill you without response.

 

But by sitting back and doing nothing we are just letting them push their agenda aswell, they will continue taking over towns and slaughtering people anyways so we know doing nothing wont work. We don't know for certain-even in the past that it has failed-that doing something wont work.

 

As I said, our Governments are going to go in and level Syria anyway, so it doesn't make much difference what we say on a football forum.

Again, I'll be * shocked if it stops the violence though. You saw that infographic I posted earlier, right? This all goes far beyond Syria, and our Government know that.