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Minimum alcohol pricing approved

Discussion in 'TalkCeltic Pub' started by Callum McGregor, Nov 15, 2017.

Discuss Minimum alcohol pricing approved in the TalkCeltic Pub area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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    Which drugs weren't already on an upward trend?

    Alprazolam has had big jumps every year since 2015.

    Benzodiazepine has fluctuated year on year (slight drop between 2017 and 2018).

    Diazepam has fluctuated, but has steadily increased since 2014.

    Meth figures are almost blank.

    Cocaine has had a significant increase, but it more than doubled in 2015 and has been on an ever increasing trend since then.

    As you say, more data would be required but assuming it isn't coincidental isn't evidence enough. The overall picture, using those statistics, shows that drug deaths have steadily been increasing in Scotland across the board, for a longer period than we've had minimum pricing. I think it's a weak stick to beat this policy with.
     
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  2. Twisty Rodgers out !!! Gold Member

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    Agree with Minty. If the jump is in relation to drugs deaths then I don't think alcohol pricing is related. Cocaine usage must be at an all time high and there will obviously be a lot of new users, which brings risks. I would also imagine drugs are being cut with even more * than they used to be, to further increase profit.
     
  3. Twisty Rodgers out !!! Gold Member

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    I think more studies should be getting done on energy drinks. Consume a few if them and take a few lines and your heart is a ticking time bomb.
     
  4. Sean Daleer Free Palestine Gold Member

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    If anything they are getting better. So much competition out there that dealers would be cutting their nose off to spite their face (happy accident)
     
  5. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    Your exact point was that it was "impossible" to link the 2; it isn't. There isn't enough data to prove infallibly that it's causal but similarly there isn't enough evidence to prove that Minimum Pricing on alcohol was the best method to tackle Scotland's issues with alchohol (if you look at it outwith purely consumption figures)

    I put my own thoughts on the last page of what I think would be a far better way of tackling the issue. I gather that won't be everyone's perspective. Not going to get into a to and fro with yourself as I imagine we'll just be repeating things already in the thread.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  6. Tim-Time 1888 Always look on the bright side of Life Gold Member

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    I'm won over, lets scrap the minimum price increase so we can let the kids get * on cheap cider again.
     
  7. tarboltontim We have nothing to lose but our chains. Gold Member

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    Drug deaths in Scotland have been rising for at least the last 13 years with occasional dips. In my experience very few people resort to class A drugs to replace alcohol and I have seen no evidence to suggest that people are resorting to other drugs because the cheapest of the "cheap end" alcohol has disappeared. Whether people are turning from alcohol to another drug is worthy of investigation but my thesis would be that few do.
     
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  8. Twisty Rodgers out !!! Gold Member

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    Maybe it's that then. I'm not into taking any of them so don't know anything about it. If they are stronger then it stands to reason that folk not used to it would be more at risk.
     
  9. Onefootwonder

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    I'll need to read the chart later, but if deaths were rising from 2017 it's not the minimum pricing of alcohol that has made the difference. The minimum pricing started 1st May 2018.

    "Legal highs" were widely used and were available on the high street in 2016 before they were made illegal.

    I would imagine that people who were using/addicted to "Legal highs" moved over to other drugs.
     
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  10. Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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    “It feels almost impossible” was the wording I used.

    I agree that minimum pricing alone isn’t going to solve alcohol issues in Scotland, but I feel it’s a step in the right direction.
     
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  11. tarboltontim We have nothing to lose but our chains. Gold Member

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    Drug deaths in Scotland have been increasing more or less year on year since 1996.

    https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/stati...events/deaths/drug-related-deaths-in-scotlandhttps://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/stati...events/deaths/drug-related-deaths-in-scotland
     
  12. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    Fair enough Minty, I can accept the different viewpoint.

    Not that it qualifies my opinion in any more than anyone elses but I sponsor an individual that has alcohol issues and from my interactions and with others it never comes down to economics.

    As perverse as that may seem to others who think logic should dictate that a man or woman buys food or groceries for their partner or children first, if it's a straight shootout between that and having a drink then the alcohol is winning every time.

    I believe it's an illness and should be treated as such. These individuals need help not to be priced out of doing it.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
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  13. Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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    Fair points but one of the points of this policy, was to help prevent future generations from developing a problem.
     
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  14. Sean Daleer Free Palestine Gold Member

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    You can't ignore a generation to achieve that though. Also if you don't fix the root cause of addiction then it won't * matter what your parents do or do not do.
     
  15. Tim-Time 1888 Always look on the bright side of Life Gold Member

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    This has been clearly stated over and over again but folk just continue to ignore that.
     
  16. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    Which comes back full circle to my original point, reducing the solution to economics is far too simplistic. I had a relative who was the highest earner in his family, big house, nice car, who died in his 30s from liver failure.

    The average person didn't just look at their bank account and see they had an extra £20 in it and went to buy 6 bottles of Frosty Jack to get blootered out their * for the rest of the week.

    Alcoholism usually comes about from escapism. People that can't deal with life, stress, anxiety, depression, poverty, mental health issues who use alcohol as a crutch to numb the pain temporarily. As the crutch is used more it becomes an addiction and dependency.

    My issue with the minimum pricing legislation is that it doesn't in any way alleviate the issues for the individuals involved. All of the factors that lead people down that path are all still there.

    The people who passed this legislation will look solely at the metrics of alcohol sales per annum as a means to justify its success, which for me doesn't tell the whole story.
     
  17. tarboltontim We have nothing to lose but our chains. Gold Member

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    However, minimum pricing was not introduced as a be all and end all solution. It was brought in as part of an overall policy.
     
  18. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    What other solutions have been implemented or mooted?
     
  19. tarboltontim We have nothing to lose but our chains. Gold Member

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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  20. Sean Daleer Free Palestine Gold Member

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    Great post.
     
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