London Bridge attacker shot and killed

Discussion in 'TalkCeltic Pub' started by Ron Swanson, Nov 29, 2019.

Discuss London Bridge attacker shot and killed in the TalkCeltic Pub area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. The Prof Administrator Administrator

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    More prisons and tougher sentences for the most dangerous people, even a double murderer like kenneth noye was released, life should mean life, you take a life then you have to give up your liberty for the rest of your own life, in cases where it is premeditated murder.
     
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  2. StPauli1916 Gold Member Gold Member

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    Sorry Prof but that is total pish. Might as well be reading the front page if The Sun.
     
  3. The Prof Administrator Administrator

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    What's your view on this ?
     
  4. Ciaran_67

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    There is no empirical evidence that “tougher sentences and more prisons” actually work. In fact, the converse is actually true.

    The Scandinavian prison system is the most efficient and has the lowest reoffending rates in the world. Engaging more in rehabilitative measures has been proven to be the most effective way of dealing with criminal activity of all sorts. Unfortunately, rehabilitation is seen as “too liberal” in the UK if you read the papers and it isn’t a vote winner with the electorate.

    This is a good example of how electoral populism is completely at odds with the research and evidence.
     
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  5. The Prof Administrator Administrator

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    If someone commits premeditated murder what should their punishment be ?
     
  6. SUMMER TIME Gold Member Gold Member

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    Just a guess, do they have a better overall standard of living. Is there a much lower crime rate.
     
  7. The Prof Administrator Administrator

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    I think there's 2 seperate things here, punishment and rehabilitation, for the crime commited there has to be a punishment, in certain cases there may be a chance for rehabilitation, but the family/relatives of the victim have to be taken into consideration, they already have a life sentence of their own, losing a loved one.
     
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  8. Ciaran_67

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    A prison sentence with a strong focus on rehabilitation rather than being locked in a cell for 20 hours a day.

    Prisons currently aren’t fit for purpose. The conditions aren’t conducive to what they are meant to do.

    The former governor at Bastoy open prison in Norway (lambasted in the Daily Mail surprisingly!) summarised it quite succinctly:

    “Do you want people leaving prison who are resentful and hateful? Or do you want people leaving prison who have gained skills, had support and are willing contributors to society?”

    A prison sentence focussed all on punishment results in the former. A rehabilitation focussed approach results in the latter.
     
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  9. The Prof Administrator Administrator

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    Agree with that, rehabilitation within the prison is fine, i just don't want the most dangerous prisoners leaving prison having only served a fraction of their original sentence.
     
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  10. StPauli1916 Gold Member Gold Member

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    My view is every single crime should be judged by those qualified to adjudicate on these things. I'm obviously no defender of "British Justice" but will I * jump on the right wing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019 at 10:15 PM
  11. Ciaran_67

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    Yes, more equality and higher standard of living results in less crime to begin with. But once crime has been committed, their principles work much better.

    This is a good article of Bastoy Prison in Norway. It has very serious criminals: people who have committed murder, trafficking etc. But their reoffending rate is around 16% - the lowest in the world.


    https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/04/bastoy-norwegian-prison-works
     
  12. The Prof Administrator Administrator

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    You don't have to be qualified to give an opinion mate, you called my view pish but you don't offer up anything yourself ?
     
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  13. StPauli1916 Gold Member Gold Member

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  14. Drakhan Nac Mac Feegle Gold Member

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    Actually, NO, i'm not. Used to think that, though, but not anymore.
     
  15. Tim-Time 1888 Winner UEFA Champs League Last 16 prediction comp Gold Member

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    I think we should focus on rehabilitation but I’m well aware in certain circumstances it’s a waste of time or the crime committed simply doesn’t deserve a second chance (We know what types of crime these are). I also wouldn’t automatically rule out capital punishment either tbh for these offences.
     
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  16. The Prof Administrator Administrator

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    Yeah i agree with that and that was what i was trying to put across in my opinion, personally i would be against the death penalty.

    I think the judicial system is a mess and it isn't working, time and time again families are let down by poor sentencing and * ups by the parole board.
     
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  17. Gyp Rosetti Gold Member Gold Member

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  18. Tim-Time 1888 Winner UEFA Champs League Last 16 prediction comp Gold Member

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    When the evidence buries the accused as guilty, for example this * on the bridge, then the death penalty could well be an option but there needs to be a frank discussion on it and how it would be implemented.
    I’m not so sure the judiciary are at fault here as they base their sentence on established guidelines and the law they interpret has usually stretched back hundreds of years. If we need it to reflect more modern situations then Government needs to amend the law/sentencing guidelines and that can lead to unintended outcomes, as we saw in Scotland. The parole system does need looked into though. On the families being let down, I used to think they should get more of a say but then you get different families being more forgiving etc and I’m not sure that helps either tbh.
     
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  19. Ron Swanson 2 x BOTB winner Gold Member

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    A life sentence, for me, but I am in favour of a prison system geared towards rehabilitation and analysis of progress, as mentioned above.
     
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  20. Jeffrey

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    If you went in and spoke to Bundy the day after he brutally murdered a young woman you’d swear he was a charming young man fit for mixing with the public. What exactly is rehabilitation and how/when can you tell if a dangerous prisoner is truly rehabilitated?