Do we need to adjust our ambitions in Europe?

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by jc1967, Dec 6, 2017.

Discuss Do we need to adjust our ambitions in Europe? in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Slater67

    Slater67

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    I can honestly say a would never want a strong sevco and would much rather they died again sooner rather than later but a can't deny in O'Neill s day they had a right good team and we got tested more domestically which made us more prepared for Europe
     
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  2. Philly67

    Philly67 The Roleblocker Gold Member News Writer

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    Don’t think that’s anything to do with Rangers personally.

    We just had far better players, and players with a lot more experience at the highest levels of football.
     
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  3. WolfOfParkhead

    WolfOfParkhead

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    No brendan just needs to cop on and adjust our tactics against the better teams. They're far from unbeatable when we approach them the right way
     
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  4. Gyp Rosetti

    Gyp Rosetti Gold Member Gold Member

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    Absolutely spot on mate, it is depressing but reaching the competition on the hope of just progressing is the reality then football at that level for us is *.
     
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  5. aliceinsound

    aliceinsound

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    Dutch sides have been pish this season, probably one of, if not their worst season in europe, but even so feyenoord beat napoli tonight so they finished with 3 points too and a much better goal difference.

    Equally this must be up their as one of benfica's worst showings in europe, i cant imagine their manager is in a cosy position right now.

    Just because they didnt win a european cup doesn't mean the achievements of basel shouldn't be noted, they qualified for last 16 with 12 points.

    I think for alot of people their hope that rodgers could have possibly be our best manager on all fronts since stein has been seriously diminished. and his limitations are becoming apparent, i think other managers could do more in europe than rodgers has, but that is not say i anyway i want him sacked, just he has probably slightly under performed in the group stage so far overall, but has done well to get us their in the first place.

    I thin another point is that reaching the group stage is never going to be enough, logically mabye it should be, but you cant just pretend like getting beat 7-1 wasn't horrible
     
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  6. Hope N Ur Heart

    Hope N Ur Heart

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    My expectations are to get into the CL group stages, then targeting a third spot to be in Europe after Christmas.I totally appreciate we may get some bad draws and my expectations are not realised100% of the time, however I do expect 100% commitment and fight from Celtic, especially at Parkhead.
    Throughout the years,we have been drawn against far superior teams/players, but past players never stood back and admired or look deflated as in some of the performances recently, which for me is the core of the disappointment for the majority of fans.
    I believe the Board have resources for BR to improve the level of players and the manager in turn wants to wait for the right player to come along and he is building the team and the club slowly and sensibly, with a vision of how the game should be played, I love this.......but please please please could we just change the tactics slightly not to get gubbed 12-1 in aggregate when required.....it shouldn't but in a way, it detracts from all the good things that BR has given.
    I can't wait for every game to come about and support the bhoys, but I don't want to watch every European game through the spaces in my fingers.
     
  7. jc1967

    jc1967

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    I didn’t include Basel precisely because of that. If I were simply comparing Celtic to clubs from leagues outwith the top four, I could have included myriad clubs, from Paris Saint-Germain to Vardar and from Monaco to Östersund.

    I chose the six clubs in question because they, with Celtic, best exhibit a general decline among big clubs from ‘smaller’ nations (we were once champions of Europe; we are now Champions League also-rans). There are always aberrations, like Basel or Östersund this season.
     
  8. PaulM1888

    PaulM1888 Gold Member Gold Member

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    Nah - we aimed to be in Europe after Christmas by finishing 3rd and we finished 3rd and are in Europe after Christmas.

    If we lost 1 nil away to Anderlecht and finished by beating them 3 nil at home I can't help but think the entire mood that seems to be creeping in would be the exact opposite.
     
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  9. Murph-E

    Murph-E

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    I think because we get the Champions route in qualifiers it should be a regular thing.
     
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  10. PaulM1888

    PaulM1888 Gold Member Gold Member

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    That's an assumption we can't make for the million variables such as the Qualifiers are our pre-season, we potentially have to travel to the back of beyond playing teams no one knows of on airport runways with no grass pitch.

    Our aim every season is to be there, regroup and then take it from there. If we got a favourable draw there is no reason whatsoever we can't aim for a 2nd spot but to get there is what we as a Club need to move forward.
     
  11. JC Anton

    JC Anton In Brendan We Trust Gold Member

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    It still tough and we were amazing v Astana who were no mugs. Even Rosenberg in the round previously always tough playing a team like that who are well into their season, they looked much fitter than us. To win over there was a very very good result and we were a tad lucky not to lose at home.

    It's an achievement to make the CL for us, that's where we're at..

    Don't get me wrong this season our performances and the gulf in class has been painful. Our first half performance v Anderlecht was particularly hard to watch as we are on a par with them and we just didn't show up.. so I totally get the frustration. Hopefully BR can bridge the gap a bit to make us more competitive. He's only been here 1.5yrs so we're early into his reign.

    Be in no doubt tho qualification is a massive achievement for us..

    Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk
     
  12. jc1967

    jc1967

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    This thread isn’t a knee-* reaction to Tuesday’s result. I’m thinking more about changes to the structure of the Champions League and the growing financial disparity between clubs in the top five leagues and everyone else.

    There are now only four places available in the champions qualifying route, and - I think - it’s now possible that 20 of the 32 teams in the group stage will come from the top five leagues. Add to that the changes that were made to seeding recently, which has pushed the runners-up in, say, La Liga into Pot 2 (provided they haven’t won the Champions League the previous season), and the odds are stacked heavily against us.

    That’s not to say we can’t still give a good account of ourselves.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  13. Sween

    Sween

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    I think the set up celtic find themselves in makes it very tough to benchmark progress.

    I think the financial disparity we enjoy in scotland and the financial disparity we suffer in europe means that really absolute dominance in scotland should be expected while anything at all in europe beyond qualifying for the champions league should be seen as a bonus.

    That makes football pretty dull when you are all but a shoe in to win domestically but have almost no chance to compete in europe. But it is what football has become and it isnt unique to celtic.

    My own expectation is really just to see improvement each year and see some effort to grow the team. Last year we made c£30m from Europe yet we spent very little and we went into this seasons campaign with a makeshift defence. That is disappointing regardless of the fact that we would have likely finished 3rd either way. I think the inconvenient truth is that until there is a domestic challenge, we have little incentive to spend to improve the team. So while I do not expect us to make even a scratch on the europa cup never mind the champions league, I would like to see improvement year on year.
     
  14. HNTB67

    HNTB67

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    Agreed. I think we all forget two seasons ago we went out in the play offs to Malmo (a proper embarrassing showing was finishing 4th in our Europa League Group, winning NO GAMES in a group that consisted of Molde, Fenerbache and Ajax).

    Again, qualifying for the Champions League is the main aim. My take on Rodgers KPIs for the season:

    Main KPIs (must dos)

    - Qualify for Champions League
    - Win SPFL
    - Win Scottish Cup
    - Win League Cup

    Secondary KPIs (could dos)

    - Qualify for Europa League after Christmas (I doubt he'd have put the last 16 on his list unless we had a very favourable draw)
    - Maintain unbeaten domestic run

    So far we've ticked off 2/4 (3 if you think we've won the league already) main KPIs and 1/2 secondary KPIs. 3/6 overall and the most we could legibly do by this stage in the season.

    4/6 of the European performances were not up to scratch, but I'd have bit your hand off for 2 good performances in a group of Paris Saint Germain, Bayern Munich and Anderlecht.
     
  15. JC Anton

    JC Anton In Brendan We Trust Gold Member

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    Had to Google KPI? :56:

    People need to remember a domestic back to back treble has never been done in Scotland...(not sure anywhere?)

    The Lions didn't do it, the financially doped Huns couldn't achieve it when there was zero competition.

    It's not a performance indicator, winning back to back trebles would be a phenomenal achievement and a piece of history.

    Not aimed at you, but I hate to see Celtic fans swallow and even peddle the myth that our achievements domestically are in some way maligned because of lack of opposition. Don't remember it being mentioned once during the scums 9iar, or by the SMSM.

    Truth is seeing us so successful is hurting like * and long may it continue.



    Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk
     
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  16. PaulM1888

    PaulM1888 Gold Member Gold Member

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    A number of folk have done proper analysis on how the gap between the points earned by the big financial powerhouses and the likes of ourselves is growing, which it is tangibly.

    I don't think you need graphs and pie charts though just common sense. We are playing against teams that can afford to spend more than 3 times our entirely yearly turnover on a single player transaction.

    That doesn't stop you supporting your team to perform a miracle which can happen but when we're soundly beaten by the likes of Bayern and PSG all perspective seems to be thrown out the window in the aftermath as if that's not what should really happen.
     
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  17. ladbroke8

    ladbroke8

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    Bar Man city last season it's been garbage at home. Teams come here knowing they can outplay us.
     
  18. JC Anton

    JC Anton In Brendan We Trust Gold Member

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    Played well enough v Bayern..

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  19. PaulM1888

    PaulM1888 Gold Member Gold Member

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    We were fantastic against Bayern, Forrest in particular was phenomenal.
     
  20. Sween

    Sween

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    But the reason we had better players was primarily because we needed them to win the league. Competing in europe was a bonus but the drive to improve came from the domestic challenge.

    For the last few years celtic have found themselves in a position where they have no need to spend a penny to win the league with a canter. In the last 3 seasons, celtics net spend has been around zero precisely because there is zero need to spend to win the league each year