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Comparing Lisbon Lions 9IAR stats to current possible 9iar stats

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by Drakhan, Dec 9, 2019.

Discuss Comparing Lisbon Lions 9IAR stats to current possible 9iar stats in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Gyp Rosetti Gold Member

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    Yes they did mate.
     
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  2. Drakhan Nac Mac Feegle Gold Member

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    I didnt include Glasgow cup as the comp now isnt for 1st team so no point comparing.
     
  3. Marty McFly Whoa, this is heavy

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    Makes sense man :50:
     
  4. Taz Blind Justice Gold Member News Writer

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    The monopolization of football, the money within it and the share of the spoils, so to speak.

    In European football terms at the elite level - European Cup/Champions League, and looking at the 2 teams that reached the final for each year... and just using this as a basis for contrast:

    Teams outwith of the G14 that reached the Final at least once:

    European Cup (1956-92) era:
    Reims (2), Fiorentina, Eintracht Frankfurt, Partizan, Benfica (7**), Celtic (2*) Feyenoord*, Panathniakos, Athletico Madrid, Leeds, St Etienne, Borussia Monchengladbach, Club Brugg,e Malmo, Nottingham Forest (2**), Hamburg (2*) Aston Villa*, Roma, Steaua Bucharest (2*), Red Star Belgrade*, Sampdoria.

    * - denotes a win

    21 different clubs which represents 32 Finalist appearances (with 10 times winning) over 37 seasons.

    Roughly is about 45% representation from outwith of the clubs that would go on to form the G14.

    And winning it at a better rate than once every 4 years combined.

    However, since then...

    Champions League (1993-present) era:
    Monaco, Chelsea (2*), Athletico Madrid (2), Spurs.

    Over 26 seasons since just 4 teams with 6 appearances between them, outwith of those that were part of the G14, have reached a Final.

    6 from a possible 52 spots.

    Only Chelsea of those have actually won. But even taking Chelsea into consideration is the fact of Abramovich pumping heaven only knows how much money into that club to get to that achievement.

    The fact remains, that only 1 time in 26 seasons that any club who was not part of the G14 won the top prize in European football shows as close to how much of a monopoly of that clique have increased and retained in the years since the creation of the Champions League and how it has gone to strengthen those clubs, and more importantly, ensure the pre-eminence of the leagues from which the bulk of those clubs came from - namely Italy, Germany, Spain, France & England.

    This is to the detriment of all others, in that on only 1 occasion has the Cup ultimately end up anywhere else outside of those 5 countries, and that was when it ended up in Porto - but still one of the G14 clubs. Even though only 1 French club has won the Champions League, they have maintained 3 and sometimes 4 clubs participation in this competition, and the prestige that comes with that to that national association and domestic league.

    Even though the G14 no longer exists as such, it's pretty evident the influence and effect that this collective have had which has gone beyond simply perpetuating dominance through self-serving, sustaining and maintaining a virtual chokehold; in other words, an outright virtual monopoly for it's members.

    How is this relevant to the discussion here?

    Because the Celtic team of Jock Stein's era, which saw the Hoops reach 2 European Cup Finals, in addition to making the Semi-Final on 2 other occasions (1972 & 1974) are evidence of a climate and a football landscape where a team - regardless of where they were from - could achieve European success. Whereas now it is a major achievement for Celtic - (or really any team from outwith of the national associations of Italy, Germany, France, Spain & England) to reach the Group stage, let alone stand a real chance of not just progressing, but getting to the business end of that competition.

    And why the European statistics are going to weigh in favour of Stein's era over this current one. And why when judging then and now purely through the lens of statistics needs to be taken in context, in that the conditions, literal and financial, be measured in a metric that extends beyond a simple Win/Loss GF & GA record.

    Scottish Football indeed is a microcosm of this, in which any silverware won by any team outwith of the 2 historical Glasgow heavyweights is seen as a major achievement - and let's not beat around the bush - it is. Indeed, prior to the run of the past few years where we have won the last 10 consecutive domestic trophies up for grabs, the 2 Cup competition honours were being shared around, with Killie, Hearts, St Mirren, St Johnstone, Aberdeen, Inverness CT & Ross County all having their proverbial day in the sun, so to speak. *, even Hibs managed to end a Scottish Cup drought that extended back to 1902! All of these were able to seize upon opportunities that historically were largely blocked and it took something outwith of their control for that to change, which is precisely what deadco's demise did, for 4 or 5 years there.

    Jelly and ice cream, anyone? :36:

    Anyhow the point is, as a club we are in a rather unique position in that the statistics offered in this thread do highlight that there is not a massive difference domestiically over 2 such dominant and successful eras, but there now exists a proverbial glass ceiling in place now that will continue to frustrate to some extent, and so long as it remains, the legacy of Stein and the Lisbon Lions preserved and can and will not be challenged in this era or beyond, until such time as circumstances outwith our ability to control change.
     
  5. cidermaster Gold Member Gold Member

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    Amazing stats there Cool Bhoy,brilliant you took the time to do it. Yes a Fantastic topic,very interesting:50:
     
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  6. cidermaster Gold Member Gold Member

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    More amazing and very interesting facts from another Cool Bhoy:50:
     
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  7. Liam Scales Gold Member Gold Member

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    How many trophies have both teams won in the 9 year period?
     
  8. tarboltontim We have nothing to lose but our chains. Gold Member

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    @Drakhan Interesting stats. thanks for posting.
     
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  9. Drakhan Nac Mac Feegle Gold Member

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    2nd post in thread
     
  10. Drakhan Nac Mac Feegle Gold Member

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    Discounting Glasgow Cup:
    Lisbon Lions 20
    Current team 17 (with 3 still to play for this season)

    Including Glasgow Cup

    Lisbon Lions 23 (Glasgow Cup had no competition for 4 seasons)
    Current Team 22 (With 4 comps still to play for this season)
     
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  11. Marty McFly Whoa, this is heavy

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    Crackin thread :50:

    Thanks @Drakhan, and always love reading your input @Taz
     
  12. Drakhan Nac Mac Feegle Gold Member

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    As requested by Taz regarding Lions against Deadco and current team against Deadco/Sevco in the relevant 9IAR seasons (Brackets will be win ratio in bold)

    Lions against Deadco:
    League Games: Played 18 - Won 9 - Drawn 4 - Lost 5 - GF 29 - GA 20 : (50%)
    Scottish Cup: Played 7 - Won 3 - Drawn 2 - Lost 2 - GF 12 - GA 7 : (42.86%)
    League Cup : Played 14 - Won 9 - Drawn 1 - Lost 4 - GF 22 - GA 11 : (64.29%)

    Total: Played 39 - Won 21 - Drawn 7 - Lost 11 - GF 63 - GA 38 : (53.85%)

    Clean Sheets in total
    Lions 13
    Deadco 7

    Current Celtic against Deadco/Sevco
    League Games: Played 18 - Won 11 - Drawn 2 - Lost 5 - GF 35 - GA 21 : (61.11%)
    Scottish Cup: Played 3 - Won 2 - Drawn 0 - Lost 1 - GF 12 - GA 7 : (66.67%)
    League Cup : Played 3 - Won 3 - Drawn 0 - Lost 0 - GF 4 - GA 0 :(100%)

    Total: Played 24 - Won 16 - Drawn 2 - Lost 6 - GF 50 - GA 26 : (66.67%)

    Clean Sheets in total
    Current Celtic 12
    Deadco/Sevco 2

    Just checked.
    During the Deadco EBT years they "won" 14 trophies with their cheating backed by SFA but without cheating we won, fairly, 13 trophies.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
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  13. Drakhan Nac Mac Feegle Gold Member

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    Just updated the stats.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019