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Pragmatism V Idealism

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by LectersLuncheon, Jun 17, 2019.

Discuss Pragmatism V Idealism in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. LectersLuncheon

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    Was intersted in reading the article with Joe Miller concerning the "Turnbull saga".

    Whilst basically calling out the lads recklessness he also chimed in about Lenny and the snake.

    We have to be honest, the football in the last 18 months hasn’t been great.

    “People haven’t given Lenny a chance but he got Celtic over the line. Who’s to say Brendan Rodgers would have managed to do that? There were signs teams had figured out how to play against them. There were no guarantees
    .

    I have to be honest. This is the most common sense thing ive read from an observer yet.
    Ive literally no doubt that Rodgers was indeed found out. Especially by sevco where he was handed an away hiding and a near miss at home. Slippys very simple yet effective tactic of choking off rodgers' philsophy was horrific to watch. And slippys sevco side full of cheap loans and geriatrics certainly werent the only ones to get wise.

    But more importantly... there was no plan b. None.

    His rigid attacking philsophy played out like a masterpiece in his first season. Blowing away everything in sight. It was almost a carbon copy of his liverpool tenure. Beautful pacey attacking football that decended into a dreary recycling system that bored everyone to tears and cost points. Right before he left us it looked like the only thing that could save his philosophy was millions upon millions in the transfer market. That was never going to happen.

    Some wont like it, but its a fair assessment to say we limped over the treble treble line and are in NEED of a far more balanced and pragmatic approach. I truly believe Lenny will deliver it. After all he has both a higher win rate at celtic and in his career than rodgers... and thats despite the utter diaster zone that was bolton.

    Lenny will approach games with a balanced squad which will be ready to switch things up against stubborm oppositions, not just wait for the 65 minute mark to swap like for like off the bench. Alots been made of Lenny v rodgers in europe also. Without getting too much into stats... Ill take a brave last man standing Lenny defeat, over a rodgers why the * did we even show up, any day of the week. We've had some great wins with BOTH managers in europe, but rodgers lows were really something to hide your face the next day in work for.

    Additions are needed obviously. And some of the names being linked are truly * frightening, but if we do the business we should be doing, then number 9 and the CL arent that far away. And its one more nail in the dead clubs coffin while we're at it.

    Bring on real madrid...
     
  2. Jeremie Frimpong

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    Lennon faired much better against Gerrard.
     
  3. The IRA

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    Erm... maybe the fact that he'd already won the first cup, was into the QF of the other and had his team sitting 8 points clear in the league having won every single domestic game since the December break, scoring 26 goals in the process.

    Not exactly signs of an ominous capitulation.
     
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  4. Jeremie Frimpong

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    Also, Lennon's 'Plan B' was to switch our wingers around - hardly revolutionary. Lennon has his strengths, but for me, he is tactically limited.

    I think that our work during this transfer window will have the biggest bearing on how we fare next season. Lennon has done well on that front in the past, but Park and others are no longer at the club.
     
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  5. The IRA

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    Don't think he did tbh.

    The performance v the Huns at CP under Rodgers was as dominant as we've been this season and but for hitting the woodwork on 4 separate occasions the performance and scoreline would have matched the 5-0 game from the previous season.

    Under Lennon however, we nearly dropped points, even lost, to a 10-man Hun side who managed to outplay us for large parts of the second half.

    As regards the two performances at Ibrox, both were so terrible I can barely muster the strength to argue which one was worse than the other, though in December we did have a goal wrongly ruled out for offside.
     
  6. Jeremie Frimpong

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    Sorry, that was sarcasm. I agree with you.
     
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  7. Fontaine Gold Member Gold Member

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    Was just about to type that exact line out about the wingers. Defo looked post for ideas that day.
     
  8. LectersLuncheon

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    Agreed on importance of the transfer window.

    But i think we'll see far more of Lennons own ideas next term as opposed to his "dont rock the boat" attitude he adopted when he took the reigns.

    My hope is a tactically more pragmatic approach whilst keeping the truly good things the snake introduced at lennoxtown.

    But as you say. This coming seasons success will be mostly dictated by what we do in this window.

    Fingers, toes, shoelaces, eyballs, vas deferenia... cross all that *. We're gonna need it.
     
  9. jocksteinupper

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    Said it from day one mate!!

    All we know is that Lenny did in fact get us over the line for the clean sweep!! Views differ on how we did it but i think credit to the guy for doing it!!

    We'll never know if the rat/snake/reptile had hung about for a whole 10 weeks and not * off to the land of milk and honey what would have happened!! Can only speculate. However, personally, i'm not convinced he would have done the same and by that i mean won the cup.

    His decision to leave when he did hardly detracts from the doubters saying he was beginning to struggle and had indeed been found out! Actually the opposite and adds credence to that theory for me!!
     
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  10. Murph-E

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    I know Rodgers left like a *, but let's not act like he wasn't a phenomenal manager domestically while here. Never seen anything like it, back to back trebles, one of them undefeated. He was more or less definitely finishing the third had he not * off as well.
     
  11. NakamuraTastic

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    To be honest, I'm a bit nervous this season. I like to keep an eye on the blue mob's forum and they're recruiting and super confident. They done us twice last season and could easily do us again. I'm not 100% sure on Lennon and would have preferred someone fresh - but he did get Hibs playing great so I'll get behind him. And once it kicks off, I'll back him cos it's what you have to do. For me, it's all about the transfer window and we need freshening. Whether that happens, I don't know. I don't think winning it is a given this season and think it will go down to the wire...but who knows. I'm gonna drink a Magners cider now after a long drink break.
     
  12. Westlondonscot Gold Member Gold Member

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    While I'm pretty sure he would have done, there is no definitely. I also do believe he left our defence quite weak. His defensive permanent recruits were Compper, Hendry, Gamboa, Toure and Izzy. Loan ins Benkovic and Toljan. The only two were close to successful were Toure who only played 17 games and Benkovic who was a loan.
     
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  13. LectersLuncheon

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    Not to * on our recent amazing achievments... given the budget we operate on which miles ahead of our league and at least double that of our nearest "rivals"
    ...

    Should trebles not kinda be expected?

    I mean, I certainly rate MoNs treble as a better accomplishment than either of the snakes, considering competition was ridiculously higher then.

    Trebles are amazing and few and far between, and a treble treble is incredible, and the snake deserves credit, but lets not suck the ghost of his * too hard, a double in his first or second season would be the least i expected tbh.

    With lenny i expect just a titke and cl groups, time for pragmatism and bringing on the young boys in these cups, whilst giving our first 11 a rotating amd much * needed rest.
     
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  14. Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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    No, history shows they're difficult to achieve.
     
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  15. jocksteinupper

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    The last three years have been amazing!! However, I don't think it's unreasonable to have expected maybe at least 1 more treble during the first 5 titles. I don't think that's too high an expectation when you consider the orcs were nowhere in site. Just my thoughts. Ronny was a shocker of a decision away from it!!
     
  16. World Champion

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    Both teams are nae mugs, should be a close game.
     
  17. The67Sound

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    A more pragmatic approach might help us in Europe - it definitely has in the past. In Scotland not so sure tbh, a lot of teams we are up against play long ball effectively - not sure it will help us trying to beat them at their own game