The Tennis Thread

It is deserved, but with caveats, not beating a top opponent for much of the season has brought him luck, it is also strange that the ATP tour final points have already came off from last year two weeks early, so what he is ahead of Nole is straight forward (though Murray has to drop Davis cup points) which put them 100 points apart if Murray wins today.

He has achieved a lot, and that should not be ignored, but its not the same level as Nole, Nadal, the GOAT et al. If he can keep it until after Wimbledon, then he will start to climb towards these guys. Two weeks at number is not the same, Lee Westwood used to be the world number 1.

 

Correct, you are measured by whats around you, and right now tennis as we know it, what Murray has been playing is changing. The new guard are not quite ready, and the old guard are fighting age with injury all over. Murray is physically miles better than the big three, with Rafa and Fed nowhere in sight. With lame horses he has became best in class, but never really has the same reach as the other three, on slams he is level with Wawrinka, although I think he is clearly better than Wawrinka, slams show no difference. He needs to convert next season, and hope that Nole continues to dive, hope Nadal and Fed cant ever return near their potential levels. Congratulations to Murray, even if its for 2 weeks or 10. He just has to show something more if he wants to be considered a true great along with the big three.

EDIT: Also to be noted, when Nole had his walkovers in the USOpen, Murray fans had nothing short a strong opinion about the 'luck' of Nole, the last two SFs of top opponents Murray has had a walkover.

 

\well done Andy

 

He's on fire right now, Andy is the one everyone in the locker room fears right now they'd rather play Novak

 

Another masters title today....well done Andy

 

Just to counter your 'caveats'......he won the Olympic Gold medal, which counted for zero points in the rankings! If it had counted for any decent amount, he would be number 1 by a good way at this point in time.

 

Andy Murray is a Scottish sporting legend who deserves much more respect than he receives tbh

 

The problem with that is if, 'if' Nadal was fit, 'if' Fed was fit and 'if' Del Potro was fit we wouldn't even be having this discussion, face the fact that Murray's rise has been greatly aided by the better players not participating and then we could have a better discussion in Murray's true position. But as is none of these are present he can be given his position, for now but still, the difference with all the top players of this generation is what they won against who they did. Fed was simply class against all, Nadal a power house on clay but able to win another five slams in the process, and Djokovic has just been on another level, twelve slams against the best.

Murray is a fantastic player, but he will not be regarded as the best, or in the group as the rest. He always has an amazing record against the lower players, but the other three he has a much lesser record. If he wants to get into that level he needs to hope that at least two of the three are able to overcome fitness issues next season, then beat them all more than defeats. If he holds his position of number one to the end of the season next year then sure. Their is a chance he may not even hold it to the end of this season, though if he does he will probably be guaranteed until spring, then the points he has gained will come into question.

 

Draw for *

McEnroe Group
Murray
Wawrinka
Nishikori
Cilic

Lendl Group
Djokovic
Raonic
Monfils
Thiem

 

Agreed, I was using that in relation to the 'if' statement of Olympic titles.

I agree, if Murray can win more slams and continue as world number one then he will have a legacy. Right now he has as many slams as Wawrinka, and one day as world number one.

 

Agreed, though until he converts those GS finals into wins he has that do contend with. He is above Stan, who lacks his consistency. But how much higher is he regarded? Gustavo Kuerten is close, a trio of slams and number 1 in the world, led prize money, for the moment I would say this is a fair comparison albeit different tournament opportunities.

 

Are the * ranked??

So if Djokovic wins will Andy lose his number 1 spot??

 

This 100%

 

I am sure British pundits will have a more myopic opinion, Olympics have only became as highly rated since Murray won them, between 1928 and 1984 they were not even an event, also remember it doesn't have a full compliment regarding players and other than the final it's a best of three set tournament. The DC win is an achievement, albeit a team event.

McEnroe is way off the mark at this point, how many years was he number one, and to disregard slams so flippantly, well why even include Masters, Davis Cup and the Olympic titles. Slams define a player, the rankings back it up. The era argument is laughable, I am sure Connors(8 Slams), Lendl(8 Slams) and Borg(11 Slams) may remind a few that that was a strong era, add to that Wilandar (7 Slams), Edberg (6 Slams) , Becker (6 Slams).

Jim Courier (4 Slams) is another name I would place him with, around the same level as Keurten (though will be higher regarded by the end of his career) no doubt Murray is in the top 20, not strong enough for top ten though may get close if he can retain his number 1 spot and wind a few more slams.

It has a few possible outcomes, whoever wins/goes furthest will probably be number 1 at the end of the season. As Murray still has DC points to drop off, he needs to achieve more than Djokovic, if they both win the same games and go out in the SF then Djokovic will be number 1.


EMIRATES ATP RANKINGS POINTS (SINGLES & DOUBLES)
ROUND-ROBIN MATCH WIN 200
SEMI-FINAL WIN 400
FINAL WIN 500
UNDEFEATED CHAMPION 1500