MP suspended Over Anti-Semitic Comments

My post deleted *???

 

Read my in-thread warning.

 

ffs I was talking about the same * you where :smiley-laughing002:

 

I'm not your mate. I don't know you from Adam426

 

You lot are terrible anti-Semites.:smiley-laughing002:

 

Your saying two different things now. Firstly you said "Going by a lot of historical records you'd think that only the Jews suffered during World War II" and now your talking about what most people think when they "hear about World War II and the victims".

On the first point. There is no historical accounts of WW2 which state that Jews were the only people to suffer during the war. On top of that, there are no accounts of the Holocaust which state that Jews were the only people to be killed, with plenty talking about Porajmos. There are reports that focus on certain things and aspects of the Holocaust but none that point blank refuse to acknowledge other parts of the genocide.

On the second point. Of course people think of the extermination of the Jews when they hear about WW2 and the Holocaust. In the same way people overwhelmingly think of Armenians when talking about the genocides committed in the break up of the Ottoman Empire, rather than Greeks or Assyrian people. Jews made up the vast bulk of those killed and so there will be a focus on them.

On the trails, there were trials that charged people with committing genocide against peoples other than Jews. Trials in Soviet Estonia charged people with killing of Romani people at Kalevi-Liiva for example. Even in the Nuremberg trials one of the main indictments was "Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace". Its what Karl Dönitz was jailed for and what Hermann Göring (Four Year Plans) was sentenced to death for.

What is you fascination with this plaque? Again, that plaque was never used as a serious source by historians. As a result, the six million figure is not related to plaque, and so it not reliant on it being correct.

The six million number keeps coming up because it is a number that has been brought up plenty of times by serious historians. The number comes not just from people that died inside the death camps, but also those killed in open air mass shoots, in ghettos and things like Gas vans for example. Raul Hilberg's work looks at the up to 800,000 who died in Ghettos across Europe, the 1.4 million killed in open-air shootings and close to 3 million that died in camps. Giving a total of just over 5 million people.

Hilberg's work is said to be a conservative as it only looks at deaths where records are available and doesn't look at the estimates of those killed in 'random' events. In the Soviet Union the Einsatzgruppen were responsible for most of the killing of Jews. Their records were far less accurate than other * records, as they were an active fighting force on the move. SS member Wilhelm Höttl said that the numbers killed by them could be up to 2 million.

One of the striking things is that in Western circles with serious historians (who argued against the early massive estimates of the Soviets) the number of Jews killed actually gets bigger with more resource. So in the '50s you had Gerald Reitlinger talking about 4 to 4.5 million Jewish victims. Then onto Hilberg in the '60s talking about 5 million victims. To Wolfgang Benz in the '90s, talking about 5.29–6.2 million victims. He was working for Eastern European governments at the time, trying to give them more reliable numbers than what they had had before (on that plaque).

Yes, but these people aren't taking seriously any more, just like Holocaust revisionism.

That is generally because they have an agenda of sorts.

I don't see why this means people have become weirdly critical of Holocaust studies. So some Zionists use the Holocaust as a "defence" of sorts, but that doesn't mean that six million Jews didn't die at the hands of the Nazis.

It seems that many anti-Zionists have questioned the six million number for the sole reason that a Zionist somewhere said it. Its a pretty crude tactic and is dangerously close to (and often just is) Anti-Semitism.

 

Jews shouldn't be exempt from criticism.

 

Sorry mate,* *

 

You're a treasure my little Zionist apologist buddy. Can I keep you?

 

I think this thread has run its course. There's a thread in the HP&R section where the wider subject of Israel can be discussed, but this thread has, for the most part, turned into insults and trolling.