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Stefan Johansen

Discussion in 'Ex Players' started by SloBhoy, Jan 15, 2014.

Discuss Stefan Johansen in the Ex Players area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Roskopicachu

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    Zaluska
    Ambrose Mulgrew Van Dijk Izzy
    Lustig Broony Johansen Biton Boerrigter
    Griffiths

    Reckon i find it hard to find the right balance between defending and attacking when Commons is in there. To me the team looks better knowing everyone has the pace to get back and defend, with the wide areas solid and the 3 play makers still in the centre of the park.
     
  2. CookieMonster Geez yer cookies Gold Member

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    Commons isn't good enough for CL in my opinion, this season he looked too slow and never got the space or time he could in the SPFL, unfortunate since he is so talented with the ball at feet. I would have Pukki in that roll, he works a lot and likes to pick the ball up and take it forward. Balde up front :50:
     
  3. Random Review

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    I disagree, mate. He's no Moravcik but he's had some really good CL performances for us. This year teams clearly identified him and Sammy as our danger men and worked very hard to shut them down. You can clearly see, even domestically, that we struggle for creativity when Commons is nullified. Hopefully Devlin's right and Johansen is the man to change that for us. I have no doubts that Pukki can play that position (as can Stokes) and it's good to have 3 players vying for the one position who all offer something slightly different.

    The thing is that the jury's still out on Pukki and Stokes at CL league level. There are mitigating circumstances for the other two but, of the 3, Commons is the only one who has so far proved he can definitely cut it at CL level.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2014
  4. Koke

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    Disagree, he's out of his depth at CL level. Had 1 or 2 decent performances the year we went to the last 16 but I can't remember any in the last campaign. I like him and I think he's absolutely essential in the SPL but he isn't good enough for the CL and if we are to go further in Europe we NEED a new CAM in my opinion.
     
  5. md1981

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    Like what I've seen of him so far. Thought he was a passing player with good vision, but he also gets stuck in and tackles.

    Hopefully, he weighs in with a few goals, but looks to be a good signing
     
  6. Random Review

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    Really? I thought that he had some decent games even this campaign and some excellent ones last season. He was never going to hit the heights of last season because teams were clearly targeting him and Sammy and working hard to disrupt their games. Sammy became a passenger as a result but I thought Commons still looked OK in most games (though I do remember him having one bad game but that happens sometimes). It may have been two bad games if he played in the away game against Barça, which I didn't watch (I got home from work, saw the score and decided I really didn't want to watch that).
    With (hopefully) Johansen giving an alternative source of creativity, teams will find it much harder to nullify both of them.
     
  7. LoveTheTic88

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    Commons has not once looked comfortable/capable at Champions League level.

    He looks sluggish, slow, no where near as effective, not able to shoot/make space the same as he does domestically or in the qualifiers and just generally well off the pace every time he's played in the competition proper.

    Commons in CL qualifiers - 10 apps, 10 starts, 3 goals, 6 assists.

    Commons in CL proper - 13 apps, 10 starts, 1 goal, 0 assists.

    That shows his level, he's good enough to play against the weaker European league winning sides at the qualifying stage and then when it comes to the big hitters in the actual Champions League group stage and beyond he's a totally different and ineffective player.
     
  8. Roskopicachu

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    When we're in against the top teams in Europe they look for a weakness, going narrow leaves us too open. We lost 6 against Barca. It was a system that just leaked goals. It worked up to a point and the team got tired and made mistakes.

    Commons is unbelievably good in the SPFL, but against the faster player who can mix it up physically, they know Commons can't beat them for pace. So they look to mug him in the middle of the park and break.

    4-5-1 got us to the last 16, later in the games we changed it and brought on an attack minded player. That's a formula that worked and if there is genuine pace in midfield, you look to flood the six yard box whenever you can.

    But i don't want to pick a system just to accommodate Commons and Mulgrew playing in no man's land. I'd rather we went with the a more solid shape.

    Draws win money in the Champions' League, defeats get you nowhere. You look to turn draws into wins instead of wins into defeats.
     
  9. murphy88

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    Our best football this year has come when we have played with no natural wide men, and allowed the full backs to bomb foward. Not saying you would get away with that in the CL, but it has worked for us domestically.
     
  10. Liam Scales Gold Member Gold Member

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    Commons has played a completely different role in Europe than hr had the SPL. No point judging him on SPL standards in Europe. For one, the amount of cover he offered for Izzy when he was played on the left and his outstanding performance against Barcelona last year where he practically ended up right back shows how key he was.

    He was also excellent against Moscow at home. He wasn't at the races in Europe this year but we were an awfully disjointed team going forwards.
     
  11. Random Review

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    I agree.
     
  12. Random Review

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    Stats don't tell the full story. One of his best games (a kind of conversion moment for me with Commons) was the home game against Juve. We got bent over, so he didn't get any goals or assists in that game; yet he had an excellent game. Personally I knew the game was over not when the second or third goals went in, but when Commons was subbed. If anyone was going to open that defence it was him. At the start of that CL campaign, I also did not rate him good enough for the CL; by the end, I was gutted to see him go off against Juve.

    He has been too easy for teams to target this year in the CL because he is just one guy. Teams knew this year how much we rely on him. Christ, we saw again the other night how unimaginative and uncreative we are when Commons isn't playing well. My hope is that we'll have several creative sources next year, which will make it much harder for teams to nullify us.

    Finally, as Devlin says (I was going to say this anyway), he plays a different role for us in the CL group stages. He has a lot more defensive responsibilities for a start.

    Having said all that, I think I do know where you're coming from. Although I insist that he has proved himself good enough at CL level, he clearly isn't a star there the way he is domestically. Thing is, unless you have a deaging machine for Lubo or reckon we might get Mata on loan from Man Utd because he wants CL football :)icon_mrgreen:), I reckon any AM better than Commons would be out of our current price range (unless it's an unproven kid, but I'd want such a kid to have a full SPL season before trusting him as our main CL AM).

    At least for one more CL campaign, Commons is our guy. I trust him at that level.
     
  13. z1c0

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    We played best in the champions league with a 4321 formation

    Foster
    lustig ambrose van dijk izzy

    brown biton johansen

    forrest----------------------samaras
    griffiths


    Thats how id line up if everyone stays, with samaras leaving then id just shove in derk or commons im a bit concerned about commons lack of pace though so would maybe shove forrest on the left and matthews on the right. I was really impressed with johansen in the killie game and it looks like we've no even seen him anywhere near his best yet
     
  14. ILoveTheCeltic

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    Commons puts in a good shift in the Champions League but he offers no attacking threat in it, he is bad enough in domestic football at getting caught on the ball or being too stiff to turn, in Europe he gets caught all the time but defends well enough.

    Id have him behind Forrest, Boerrigter, Pukki and Stokes in pecking order for the CL.

    Stokes I thought played well in the CL this season, obviously not got the pace, power, strength or ability in the air to play as a lone striker but he held the ball well, can beat players and create, he'd be good in the attacking midfield position.

    For the CL next season id play....

    Forster
    Lustig Ambrose Van Dijk Izaguirre
    Mulgrew
    Matthews Brown Johansen
    Stokes
    ???????

    We're just lacking a capable lone striker. Biton could play in Mulgrew or Matthews position or Forrest could play in Matthews or Stokes. Ideally we'd want another player like Hooper who is quick and strong enough to play alone and clinical enough to score or hold the ball well or someone like Vennegoor who can hold it up and offer a target for crossing into.

    In easier home games or that we could play

    Forster
    Lustig Ambrose Van Dijk Izaguirre
    Brown Mulgrew
    Forrest Stokes Boerrigter
    ???????
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2014
  15. mightymcginn

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    actually thought he was one of our worse performers against barca last season. Remember screaming at my tv for him to get back on defense as he left us open to attack down his side. Luckily we never paid for it though. Imo the qualifying stages are the last stages he should get any playing time in.
     
  16. ILoveTheCeltic

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    He actually was one of our best players against Barcelona and Juventus at home I thought, although I do agree I wouldnt play him in the CL.

    Stokes, Pukki, Boerrigter, Forrest, Matthews are all more suitable either out wide or in the hole as they can put in the same defensive work but are all more suited to attacking.

    Only time id play him in the CL are if it was against a weaker team, but there is very few weaker teams than us, this season maybe only Anderlecht, Viktoria Plzen and Copenhagen id have played Commons against and even then they're not much weaker, almost on our level and even then could beat us but I think we could dominate possession against them so Commons would be able to play higher up the pitch. All the other teams who are basically the same as us Ajax, Benfica, Porto, Marseille, Steaua Bucharest, Basel, Olympiacos, CSKA Moscow and Shakhtar I think we need someone with more pace and attacking threat as those games are more 50/50 and we could see lesser of the ball.

    Commons in the CL is basically held back to just holding the ball and passing it about. He can't get forward quick enough from when he has to defend, same as Januzaj and Mata for Man U in that game against Liverpool they were useless as they dont have the pace to get forward after being pinned back by Liverpool. Us in the CL is similar where we have to defend a lot and Commons is useless going forward as he cant get forward quick enough.
     
  17. dannynye1888

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    Playing narrow done us wonders in the champions league last season. Worked against barca at home and almost away.

    Would've worked at home again had we not went down to 10 men
     
  18. murphy88

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    Going narrow actually makes us more compact in Europe in my opinion. Forcing teams to go from side to side is what we would want. We done this to Barcelona last year, and they started putting in crosses second half as they couldn't play through us. Which suits us down to a tee.
     
  19. Random Review

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    Love the optimism, picking Forster. :smiley-laughing002:
     
  20. Random Review

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    We have probably the quickest backline in a long time. The only team we should be sitting deep the whole game for is Barça (because that's the only tactic that works against them). I'm not saying throw men forward, but our back line should be high enough that Commons is further up the pitch where he can cause damage. Our problem has been an inability to keep the ball and that naturally forces you deeper. I'm quite hopeful that our new-look midfield will be much more capable of doing just that next season. This will allow us to get the best not just from Commons, but also out of Ambrose, who is excellent at mopping up long balls played up to their striker/in behind but a bit of a bombscare sitting deep surrounded by their strikers in a congested space.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2014