1. Having trouble logging in by clicking the link at the top right of the page? Click here to be taken to the log in page.
    Dismiss Notice

Plastic Paddy?

Discussion in 'TalkCeltic Pub' started by Padraig1916, Aug 30, 2011.

Discuss Plastic Paddy? in the TalkCeltic Pub area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Matt_20

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2006
    Messages:
    3,682
    Likes Received:
    72
    Location:
    Bishopbriggs
    I have no problem with the term but I'm a self loather, I want us to go one step further than Hibs and completely erase everything Irish from our history and ban the tricolour.

    No but seriously it's a light hearted joke term to describe people with really distant/non-existant Irish ancestry who proclaim their allegiances to the RA and all that * despite having nothing to do with it, in some cases not understanding it but in some others, going to painstaking lengths to research it, for whatever reason I dunno, my guess is so they can hit you with the "historical facts" (from one side of the story of course) when they get criticised for singing about some completely irrelevant in today's society.

    Some people need to stop taking offence at everything.
     
  2. made in ireland

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,810
    Likes Received:
    143

    i think this is spot on.
     
  3. paddyahern44

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Belfast
    Scottish was just a term invented by the Romans to describe the Irish who sailed over from Scotia (Ireland) on raiding expeditions against the occupation in Britannia (Wales/England) and Caledonia (Scotland). Many of those Celtic Scotti stayed and formed a kingdom, together with the Celtic Caledonians and Picts, that was called Alba (Albion), the Celtic word for the island now called Britain.

    So all Scots are Irish, but not all Irish are Scots. The Welsh, Scots, Irish, Manx, Cornish and indeed 60% of the entire population of the island of Britain are indigenous Celts, sharing the same blood. These indigenous peoples first settled the islands over 8,000 years ago where as yet there was no distinction between a Welshman, Scotsman or Irishman. However, whatever we were, we weren't British.

    The Romans used the idea of "citizenship" to subjugate and assimilate conquered peoples. It was the idea and the practice that when a land was newly conquered, Roman citizenship was offered to those individuals who would assist the Romans in their war against their compatriots.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_citizenship

    When the English inherited their Roman master's territories they replaced Roman citizenship with British citizenship. So that allegiance to family, clan or tribe is replaced with allegiance to the Empire and her sovereign Queen.

    It was the English that invented the term Waelisc, meaning "foreigner", and applied it to the Welsh, who are now foreigners in their own ancestral lands.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales

    Even now Irish "immigrants" to their own native Scottish lands are told to "go back home".
     
  4. GovanCasino

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    its not a racist term at all, its something that always annoyed me living in glasgow, people who latch onto certain aspects of irish culture, mainly republicanism, and think they're irish but they dont know the first thing about the country.

    here's a conversation i had once in my local irish bar in glasgow
    me "do you have RTE in here"?
    barman "whats that, a drink"?
    me "no mate, its a TV channel"
    barman "one of those arab ones"?
    me "no, its irish"
    barman "dont know mate"
    me "do you show hurling on sundays"?
    barman "hurdling"
    me "doesn't matter mate, 2 pints of tennents please"

    but this place had tricolours in the bar, an irish name and rebs on the jukebox. that, to me is a plastic paddy.
     
  5. paddyahern44

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Belfast
    Let's just say an alien from another planet crash lands on the outskirts of Glasgow, pregnant or incubating an egg of some sort. The egg hatches and the alien offspring emerges; is that alien offspring Scottish, Irish or Gaelic?

    I grant that the offspring can be British, considering British nationality to be merely a legal fiction. But Scottishness, Irishness and Gaelicness is an ethnic and/or cultural descriptor, and while that offspring may have been raised on what is designated as the Scottish landmass, only with assimilation into the Hiberno-Scotti culture could that offspring even have a semblance of Scottishness/Irishness.

    Yet when all is said and done, that alien offspring is still a Glooblegork from planet Prompypoo, albeit with a Glaswegian accent.
     
  6. Fiferbhoy1991

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    6,753
    Likes Received:
    667
    Location:
    SSR Fife
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Kieran Tierney
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Grace
    The term doesn't bother me at all, Im an Irish-Norwegian with a Fife accent. No amount of digs or jibes will change that
     
  7. MattMcG

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,317
    Likes Received:
    0

    Someone born and raised in a country cannot be considered from that country because their bloodline is from another? You a fan of Bernard Manning per chance?

    Would quite like you to explain Scottishness and Irishness though. Without talking pish or quoting Wikipedia.
     
  8. Hibby

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    987
    Likes Received:
    1
    Don't get the OP's opinion at all, as well as some other posts on here.

    I completely understand the part about feeling Irish because of family, as well as the bit about not feeling British. My parents are Irish, and I was born in Scotland. I'm proud of my Irish heritage, and I hate everything British national identity stands for (imperialism isn't my cup of tea).

    Here's where we disagree though, why would somebody born in Scotland with two Scottish parents deny their Scottishness? I don't even have any Scottish family and I'm proud to come from this great country, that doesn't have to compete with my Irish identity. Simply put I'm both, and the OP is even more so than me. Is the OP going to drill it in to his kids that they're Irish and not Scottish, when the kids grandparents down are all Scottish?

    It's all very well saying things like "how come there's millions of people with Irish heritage in America/Canada/Australia, and there's only sectarianism in West Scotland?" Whilst there is definitely a lot of anti-Irish bigots in Scotland and that's in-excusable, where else would you get people who's last three generations of family are born in a country, but they deny their nationality?

    A lot of people in Scotland from an Irish background have a very us against them attitude, and think they have to deny being Scottish because of it. The irony is a lot of them have become as bigoted as those on the other side, you just have to look at the John Wilson thread on here and read all the comments about how Scotland is a backwards country because of one court verdict.

    In short, get the * over it. I've lived here for 21 years with two Irish parents and not suffered at all for it. The OP is Scottish as well as Irish, and if that idea offends him he's as bad as anti-Irish folk.
     
  9. paddyahern44

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Belfast
    A Glooblegork born in Scotland is a Glooblegork born in Scotland, but not Scottish.

    The land is named after the people, not vice versa.

    The Glooblegork was born in the Land of the Scots, lived amongst the Scots, but ultimately the Glooblegork has three penises and an * probing limb on his left ear, at least I think it's an ear.

    Are you seriously telling me this Glooblegork is a Scot? That there is nothing to distinguish the multi-cocked, *-probing Glooblegork from those pale, freckled creatures with alcohol problems?

    What if a Scottish woman, that is a red-haired, freckle faced, neanderthal looking, good old fashioned Scottish woman, gave birth to a child on the Glooblegork's homeworld. Would that child cease being an Earthling, a Scot, a human being and become a Glooblegork?
     
  10. scootz

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8,404
    Likes Received:
    3,065
    Location:
    Scotland
    I'm a biped, carbon-based life-form... the rest is all just a load of bollocks!
     
  11. Ammanvalleyjack

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    467
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Carmarthenshire, South Wales
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Henrik Larsson, John Hartson, Neil Lennon
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Something Inside So Strong
    If i was in charge of Wales right now, an independent wales, and i had the choice...the number one thing i would demand is the person i am granting citizenship to has wales's best interest's at heart. that makes them a Welshman...maybe not through blood or birth but through deeds.

    going on...i dont think there is a right answer here...some people call themselves welsh/irish/scottish through birth....some through blood but not birth....it is whatever that individual person feels.

    i dont feel you can be irish/scottish/welsh from a link 5 generations ago...especially if its one great grandparent out of what...8? you can certainly have a link...but not BE. case in point...i and my mother have always lived in an area called the Amman Valley...historically our family on her side come from the Tywi Valley, a place called Talley which is 15miles from where i live. knowing they lived on this one farm spot for 200yrs until 1918 doesnt make me from Talley. i like talley because of this, enjoy visiting the area, feel an emotional attachmnt to the area and smile when i drive past signs pointing to talley...but im not a Talley-man. My dad is Kashmiri...ive visited Kashmiri...i descirbe myself as a Welshman of Welsh-Kashmiri blood but im not a Kashmiri. my personal feelings although to many and including my closest friends despite my rabid involvement in welsh nationalism i will always be a "* terrorist lover" . what can you do.

    an additional thought....Scottish racism against Irish always shocks me. From birth it has always been accepted that us celts stick together and have a good old time together. visiting Edingburgh/Dublin and saying I'm welsh automatically gets you in the good graces. vice versa. In Uni in England i became best friends with 10 Irishmen from a friendship that literally started because I was welsh. "hiya welshman". an english man would have to win them over with his personality and even then it wouldnt be a naturally fit. the irish tended to stick together and with their own.

    can all the celts just chill out?! we've survived against invaders collectivelty for thousands of years. we're cousins mun lol!
     
  12. Benedict XVI

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,962
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    401
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Present : Hinkel Past : Thompson
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Let The People Sing. Partial To A Rebel
    I'm scottish but have no passion at all for the country
    I have strong Irish links and recognise more with Ireland
     
  13. Murph-E

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    10,052
    Likes Received:
    4,060
    Location:
    Belfast
    I'm Irish, with Irish parents, Irish grandparents, and as far as I'm aware, Irish great-grandparents. I don't ridicule anybody at all for being proud of their Irish heritage, no matter how distant it is.
     
  14. Sween

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    8,819
    Likes Received:
    2,366
    I am sort of in the middle on this one.

    On one side I think it is sad that we generally seem to have an issue with multi-nationalistic identities in this country. This I believe is largely due to the fact Scotland has traditionally been an emigrant country and not an immigrant countries. Is it odd to me that people in the US, Canada, Australia, etc, can consider themselves Irish-American, African-American, etc, without too much contention. Their dual nationality does not reflect negatively in any way on their birthplace. Here we do not seem to conceive the idea of being Irish-Scottish, African-Scottish, etc, in the same way.

    On the other hand, I do think it is odd that people 3 or 4 generations removed from Ireland but have Scottish parents and are Scottish themselves consider themselves Irish first. Because surely outwith supporting Celtic they arent? My gread grandad was Irish, but I am not. It doesnt mean I do not like Irish or that I am not proud of my family background. But I am kidding myself on a bit if I think I am as Irish as I am Scottish.

    On a side note, I think it is an interesting and popular trait for emigrant groups to define their nationalism with outdated notions that no longer belong to the actual country. This is understandable in a way, but I found it weird when being amongst American Scots that they have a very Jacobian notion of Scottishness that doesnt really exist much anymore in modern Scotland. I sometimes get the feeling when people talk about "feeling Irish" in this country, they might be disappointed if they went to live in Dublin and realised it is pretty much the same as here with an even worse economy!
     
  15. Belfast-hoops

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Belfast
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Jinky
    Fav Celtic Song:
    over and over

    You are Irish mate and * anyone who tells you different and if you choose, you could get yourself an Irish passport through your Granda.

    Contact Irish embassy for information but whether you do or don't, your Irish.

    :50:
     
  16. Monto16

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Glaschu, Alba
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Di Canio
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Fields of Athenrye
    If people concentrated on our similarities instead of our differences (ethnicity, religion, sexuality, class) the world would be a better place. I couldn't give a * where someones grandparents come from or what nationality they believe themselves to be as long as they're a decent human being.
     
  17. Belfast-hoops

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Belfast
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Jinky
    Fav Celtic Song:
    over and over
    That's bang on mate but you can still be all this and proud of your roots and nationality.:shamrock:
     
  18. Artur Boruc #1

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2010
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    5
    My passion for the "best wee country in the world" has all but disappeared in the past few years as well to be brutally honest. That's probably pretty sad but there ye go, too many things have happened over the past wee while which has disgraced this country something awful, and my disgust has grown from that. The other day's joke of a verdict being the straw that broke the camel's back for me.
     
  19. Mystic Penguin

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    21,171
    Likes Received:
    1,717
    Location:
    Republic of North Lanarkshire
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Samaras
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Amhrán na bhFiann
    Same. I was born in Ireland but I would never have a go at anyone who classes themselves as Irish in Scotland. In America people are proud of their identity and Irish culture but in Scotland people are embarrassed by it.

    So I applaud anyone who has the balls to stand up and be proud of their ethic identity.

    Same. I have lost all faith in this country.

    My mates have been telling me to come to Scotland games and back the boys.

    Seriously If Scotland were playing in my back garden I wouldn't open the curtains.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2011
  20. Artur Boruc #1

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2010
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    5
    That makes two of us :celt_2: