transfer market reality

[venegoorstrokes]

I posted on the 'scouting the European Championships' thred that I think that the players on display fall mainly into two groups -

1. Ones who are very good but we cant afford there wages or transfer fee
2. Ones who are not much better than what we have or can get locally.

I do believe there are maybe a few out there that fall between these two groups but the simple truth is a great player is not going to escape the attention of the top clubs scouts at the tournament. I doubt we are going to sign any gems from this tournament. In fact I am coming to the conclusion that unless we get players very very young and inexperienced we are not going to get real uber-talent. Two of the three most talented falir players at the club in the last 4 or 5 seasons have been brought through the ranks (Shaun and Aidan). As long as we sign a LB, I could live with it if WGS said 'I cant afford much better than what we could develop ourselves with a little patience so I am going to get young players like Caddis, O'D, Cuthbert, Wilson, McGowan, Sheridan, Koki and Hutchinson to step up and challenge. I it makes things a bit hairy at times next season then we will see the benifits the following one'. BTW, I firmly believe we would still win the SPL anyway judging by Rangers signing policies. The reality is that ordinary players not much better than what we have are costing 3 or 4 million. Whats the point in soending on more JJs, Donatis, Gravs etc who are problem players which is why we were able to get them in the first place. I think we should blood youngters and just hoover up as much local young talent as possible.

[kevtun1888]

I agree with manny aspects of your last statement. I think that blooding some youth is great for the club but lets face it although we have that new training complex we will never get more than maybe 10 in 10 years that make the grade.

Also with you saying it might be a bit hairy next season but we will reap the benefits the following 1. Im sorry but winning the league is a must for me. We were so far ahead of the dark ones that we should be able to buy 1 or 2 real quality players in for me it would be a left back and a striker and Im sorry but sammy is not the answer.

We need to go all out and sign atleast 1 big one give him the wages we can not let this obvious strength we have over the dark ones slip

Bring on the 30th August

[rendog67]

you are right, unless we spot someone nobody else does

[SwoopingVulture]

If you look at the players that WGS has spent big on (over 2m) they have not really worked out. The only one that has really been any sort of success so far is VoH and plenty of people on here don't think he has been either.

Our best signings do seem to be players from the SPL or up and coming players from other unfashionable leagues. Buying players from the Euros is pointless as every manager in every league will be watching them and it will just add a couple of million on to their price tags.

I'd also like to see us stay away from England where a forward that scored 6 goals in the championship last season can be considered to be worth 4m. We got a striker last summer who had scored over 20 in the SPL for 700k who we knew would score goals for us. Why gamble such large sums on unproven talent?

I'm happy to base our team on youth players and the cream of SPL talent augmented by 3 or 4 high quality foreigners. What is the point of signing a load of foreign players who are only here because of the money and because nobody in the EPL wants them. Most foreigners would rather play for clubs like Fulham or Reading, much smaller and less successful than us, because they are in the EPL. Rather we had gutsy players playing a hundred percent for us like Hartley, Robson and McDonald than big name foreigners like Graveson who come here just to pick up the cash.

[ellboy]

You either have to take a chance on damaged goods just like Blackburn did with Santa Cruz for 3.5 million or again using Blackburn as an example you have to dig up talent like there CB Samba for peanuts and he is now a valuable commodity.

The high profile media hyped pros are not our market however they are only within the reaches of approx 10% of clubs around Europe.

There are more players around than squad places within Europe’s big spenders we just have to be as clever as some of the other second tier club sides who have spent wisely and built formidable and succesful sides.

[supermike]

The problem is (in terms of the manager/board/staff) keeping their job is that 95% of Celtic fans would rather see us spend £5 million plus this summer on a big name. The same fans that would then cry foul if it didn't work out. Yes I'm being a little bit damning/condescending but I reckon thats the way it is.

In fact surely there would be all out carnage if we didn't bring in a huge signing.

We should and evidently are sending our scouts down the less beaten track. Eastern Europe, Africa, the Americas, Asia. You can see evidence of this with Naka, Koki, Du Wei, Boruc, Zurawski, that American midfielder we couldnt get, the keeper Guzan, this other yank keeper....

The only problem is our work permit situation which gives teams from comparable smaller leagues (Holland, France, Portugal) massive massive advantage.

[Hammer]

There's players out there that are good and will add to our squad for reasonable prices i.e. the emerging Eastern European markets. Long and short of it is Celtic have never signed a player when he was considered world class and whilst we reside in the SPL we never will. I have no problem whatsoever with signing guys like Barry Robson whom i rate as high, if not more than, a lot of midfielders plying their trade in the EPL that would cost silly amounts to buy.

[squire_2]

Originally Posted by Keltoi

The reality is that ordinary players not much better than what we have are costing 3 or 4 million. Whats the point in soending on more JJs, Donatis, Gravs etc who are problem players which is why we were able to get them in the first place.

The thing is K, there's no way of knowing the outcome of these type of signings until we actually sign them. It's just your luck how they turn out as Nakamura, Boruc, Zurawski were/are successes at varying levels that could have just as easily went the other way and vice versa with the three your mentioned.

You are right in that young Scots are a big part of our future signing policies, but they are not exclusive to them. I think the recent improvement in our youth system, building the academy, bringing in highly regarded scouts etc. ensures that the next 10 years will see an rise in the number of young bhoys coming through and actually becoming the backbone of our team, but the fact that we have a scouting network all over the world proves that we will always be on the look out for foreign talents no matter how many Scottish bhoys we have.

[cat123]

Got to agree if the players on show aren't any better than what we have got then don't buy them, also the whole point of Lennoxtown is to develop talent and I think it will deliver because look at some of the player we brought through without the benefit of the new facility.

I would also say that the big players are a waste of money and we should instead of spending 7 million on one player put more cash into the scouting and try and unearth some decent talent from eastern europe, ireland, sweden, norway and denmark, places were we have always looked for bargain players that can do a job.

I'm just sick of guys like Juniniho and Gravesen bleeding the club dry, we need players who give 100% and are not just here to collect big money.

[Celticnut]

Well at least the situation with giving youth a chance is improving under Strachan.One of the things that used to annoy me about MON was his refusal to put any sort of faith in the younger players,especially in his last season.

I realise that you can't just call for younger players to replace established first teamers but what pisses me off is when we have average squad players getting games over promising youths simply because they have more experience.Chris Killen is no better talent wise than Hutchinson,McGowan or Sheridan but he will always be given preference due to his experience.

Last season we went for months with stop gaps like Caldwell and Hartley at RB when we had Caddis waiting in the wings.We persisted with Naylor and O'Dea at LB when we had Conroy waiting to get a chance.Whe they finally did play neither of them were a disaster were they?I think sometimes the manager has to bite the bullet and say 'Right you're in son because you are the better footballer.'

[venegoorstrokes]

Originally Posted by Celticnut

Well at least the situation with giving youth a chance is improving under Strachan.One of the things that used to annoy me about MON was his refusal to put any sort of faith in the younger players,especially in his last season.

I realise that you can't just call for younger players to replace established first teamers but what pisses me off is when we have average squad players getting games over promising youths simply because they have more experience.Chris Killen is no better talent wise than Hutchinson,McGowan or Sheridan but he will always be given preference due to his experience.

Last season we went for months with stop gaps like Caldwell and Hartley at RB when we had Caddis waiting in the wings.We persisted with Naylor and O'Dea at LB when we had Conroy waiting to get a chance.Whe they finally did play neither of them were a disaster were they?I think sometimes the manager has to bite the bullet and say 'Right you're in son because you are the better footballer.'

I agree with what you say except the FBs. Caddis was injured and only became fit at about the same time Wilson did too so he simply wasnt an option for most of the RB crisis time. Conroy was an improvement on OD or Hartley at LB but he is a converted winger and it shows a bit at times.

One thing I wonder is what was the real story with Bjarrnison. There is defo something we are not hearing about - like a sell on/first refusal clause or maybe there was a big fall out. He was too good to let go just like that. He looked amazing on his debut.

[Drumbhoy]

Originally Posted by Hammer

There's players out there that are good and will add to our squad for reasonable prices i.e. the emerging Eastern European markets. Long and short of it is Celtic have never signed a player when he was considered world class and whilst we reside in the SPL we never will. I have no problem whatsoever with signing guys like Barry Robson whom i rate as high, if not more than, a lot of midfielders plying their trade in the EPL that would cost silly amounts to buy.

Def agree that the eastern european route could be our best hope of unearthing good players as i think, in the long run taking players from far flung countries ie.Japan,Ausrailia and South America is risky due to any future international call ups mean extra travelling and we know how much it took out of Nakamura and what with the World Cup qualifiers ongoing we really need to watch who we sign.
I think the most telling thing over the last year is Celtic poaching John Park from Hibs who brought on so many young players through and also Chris McCarts appointment,as he is very highly regarded.I believe that Celtics management are focussing more on bringing through the youth and developing the team that way.as stated in another post MON never really brought through many youngsters.I think WGS is more inclined to give them a chance knowing we cannot compete with top euro teams in attracting top players.The only way i see us getting good players outwith Scotland is players who have suffered setbacks,either in form or injuries.
Just like Sutton (a flop at Chesea)Thompson (flop at Villa)Larsson(fall out at Feyenord)
Apart from that bring on the new season!!!

[hoopymo]

One thing I wonder is what was the real story with Bjarrnison. There is defo something we are not hearing about - like a sell on/first refusal clause or maybe there was a big fall out. He was too good to let go just like that. He looked amazing on his debut.

he was a really nice guy too who seemed like he loved the team, seen him in town many a time in celtic tops and was always happy to talk to people, suprised the amount of people that recognize him

[Celticnut]

Originally Posted by Keltoi

I agree with what you say except the FBs. Caddis was injured and only became fit at about the same time Wilson did too so he simply wasnt an option for most of the RB crisis time. Conroy was an improvement on OD or Hartley at LB but he is a converted winger and it shows a bit at times.

One thing I wonder is what was the real story with Bjarrnison. There is defo something we are not hearing about - like a sell on/first refusal clause or maybe there was a big fall out. He was too good to let go just like that. He looked amazing on his debut.

Caddis was fit when Wilson first got injured at the start of the season and was fit for weeks before he finally got a chance.I know he got injured for a good while in between these times but the fact remains that both Caldwell and Hartley were given preference over him at various points in the season.Remember at Falkirk Hartley was picked ahead of him and he came on as a sub.

Yeah I think there must have been something that went on behind the scenes with Teddy as well.A mate told me that him and Strachan had a bust up but he's got no connections with the club or anything so it's probably pish.

[joshua767]

I think the team doesnt need much strengthening and as for young talent, Caddis, Conroy, Sheridan sound like they are going to be good players. I just think we need a center back and a very good center midfielder. I think Brown has a huge potential he may turn out awesome this year but we really need to fill the creative hole Petrov left, or the holding hole Lennon left as he was amazing. Robson was excellent for Celtic and in the last 7 games or so Gary Caldwell and Paul Hartley were very very good, two players whom I had a poor opinion of recently, this is my arguement for not needing much new players. Also I think O'Dea has the potential to be brilliant, remember him agianst AC Milan. Just some experience in the CB ans CM. We should get rid of the flops - Donati, Gravesen, Samaras. I also think we dont need 4 right backs but I think they are all very good. Maybe rotate between the experience of Hinkel and the youth and nationality of Wilson.