Detention without charge for 42 days?

[Ricardinho]

28 days seemed long enough to me. I think the worry people who oppose this is now it'll be 42 days but then someone will say why not 60 or 90 etc..

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by The Doctor

I'm don't buy the 'no smoke without fire' argument.

Would you be less adverse if there was genuine cause to believe the person in question was a suspected terrorist? i.e. visiting bomb websites, displaying peculiar behaviour or whatever?

[greendave]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Would you be less adverse if there was genuine cause to believe the person in question was a suspected terrorist? i.e. visiting bomb websites, displaying peculiar behaviour or whatever?

I'd always be wary of giving police the right to hold people without charge for such a long time.

[ellboy]

As Keltoi has said, not many people will be affected by this. First of all you have to be on the radar as a threat and then the police have to make a case before the courts to enforce this 42 day rule. It is not so simple as to just point the finger at every Tom, Dick & Harry that may be under suspicion.

I also agree with Keltoi when he says he would increase the Nanny state his idea to eradicate dangerous driving is an admirable one.

I would keep everyone’s DNA on database as I really cannot see an argument as to why people would object to the police being able to do there job more efficiently.

I guess if you are comfortable within yourself, that you have nothing to hide. Then you would most likely not have a problem with the powers that be holding personal data.

[Guy Fawkes]

Clearly ellboy you never read history.. if you think it will only target real criminals your just blind. Might want to look up fascism while your at it.

[ellboy]

Originally Posted by Mithrandir

Clearly ellboy you never read history.. if you think it will only target real criminals your just blind. Might want to look up fascism while your at it.

I am very aware that mistakes and injustices have been made. Nothing is infallible and I am certain mistakes have been and will be made in the future 42 days or not.

However anything that can help put scum away and protect the general public at large gets my vote.

Regarding fascism I am fully aware of the term and it’s meaning. To imply this as being anywhere close to that movement is not correct IMO.

[Guy Fawkes]

Originally Posted by ellboy

I am very aware that mistakes have been made nothing is infallible and I am certain mistakes will be made in the future 42 days or not.

However anything that can help put scum away and protect the general public at large gets my vote.

Regarding fascism I am fully aware of the term and it’s meaning. To imply this as being anywhere close to that movement is not correct IMO.

Haha.. give up your rights in the name of national security eh?

your a smart lad ellboy.. clearly the model citizen in maggie thatchers head.

[ellboy]

Originally Posted by Mithrandir

Haha.. give up your rights in the name of national security eh?

your a smart lad ellboy.. clearly the model citizen in maggie thatchers head.

Just someone who believes in Freedom and Democracy.

I may not like decisions made by our government but at least I have the right to question them and ultimately vote against them just as you do living in the land of the free. (wish it was me btw) It’s a shame far too many folk around the world are not afforded that same luxury.

Regards to your question about giving up rights. I am sorry but I don´t see it that way at all. Unfortunately we live in an ever more dangerous world (both foreign and domestic) and we need to be vigilant and find ways to protect ourselves.

Can I ask you what rights would we be giving up if we were all on a DNA data base(my ideal) and we allowed the police 42 days (What this debate is about)?

[Guy Fawkes]

Originally Posted by ellboy

Just someone who believes in Freedom and Democracy.

I may not like decisions made by our government but at least I have the right to question them as you do.

It’s a shame far too many folk around the world are not afforded that same luxury.

Regards to your question about giving up rights. I am sorry but I don´t see it that way at all. Unfortunately we live in an ever more dangerous world and we need to be vigilant and find ways to protect ourselves.
Can I ask you what rights would we be giving up if we were all on a DNA database?

Hahahaha mate... You support democracy.. dont kid yourself. Clearly you support the democracy that youve been told to like but is it really a democracy or anything close..


And to the latter question.. whats to stop them from going further than DNA test.. whats to stop them from putting CCTV in your house? whats to stop them from putting tracking collars on you?

Those above you might think is far-fetched hippy gibberish. But they would make the world safer..

[ellboy]

Originally Posted by Mithrandir

Hahahaha mate... You support democracy.. dont kid yourself. Clearly you support the democracy that youve been told to like but is it really a democracy or anything close..


And to the latter question.. whats to stop them from going further than DNA test.. whats to stop them from putting CCTV in your house? whats to stop them from putting tracking collars on you?

Those above you might think is far-fetched hippy gibberish. But they would make the world safer..

Democracy is by no means perfect but it is a damn site better than the alternative. Do you not think?

Your last point is not too far fetched currently there are enough CCTV in the UK to cover 1 in every 14 of the general public. Also I am sure you are aware of listening devices and satellites that exist now(indeed they have done so for many years without our knowledge). These tools have had little or no effect on the majority of decent law abiding citizens thus far and have not visibly hindred the daily lives of the general public.

Dog collars and cameras in your home. Even I would draw the line at that These things may well be asked for, who knows the future. However to leap to those asumptions from the current 42 days is one hell of a leap to make IMO.

[gary b]

My objection to the 42 day limit is simple.

It will be one of the longest detention periods without charge in the Western world.Longer than the US and any country in Western Europe.Are we really in more peril than these countries?

[tim park]

you are all shouting over nothing ,.it has passed its first vote...the house of lords will reject it

[ellboy]

Originally Posted by gary b

My objection to the 42 day limit is simple.

It will be one of the longest detention periods without charge in the Western world.Longer than the US and any country in Western Europe.Are we really in more peril than these countries?

From an outside threat probably not but a threat from within our own borders then IMO Yes.

The make-up of the U.K. i.e. Lax Immigration policy for many years etc.etc have allowed far too many un-savouries into GB who hold animosities towards our way of life and would like to do us harm. Anything that helps keep these people from harming the general public (within reason) should be supported. In fact public opinion polls prior to the vote had shown 70% of the public do support 42 days.

Tim Park

Your right mate the Lords will most likely throw it out. Geriatric chin dribbling fuckers.

[kennydal]

Originally Posted by Renegade T

why not give the powers at be more time to investigate ?

why would anyone want to curb an amount of time available to question suspected terrorists?

42 days seems reasonable to me , or are we ok to let suspected terrorists loose sooner ?

agree with that statement ,after 9/11 ,glasgow etc ,only if they have strong leads on suspects they should be held until a full investigation is done , yes there has been mishaps ,but im still for it ,better safe than sorry

[greendave]

Originally Posted by tim park

you are all shouting over nothing ,.it has passed its first vote...the house of lords will reject it

The House of Commons can use the Parliament Act to push the law through.

Originally Posted by gary b

My objection to the 42 day limit is simple.

It will be one of the longest detention periods without charge in the Western world.Longer than the US and any country in Western Europe.Are we really in more peril than these countries?

Powers such as these are wide open to abuse.

Not to mention the fact that this government has proved itself to be completely and utterly hopeless at holding confidential information, the last thing it needs is more power to snoop on our daily lives.

Why pretend to be the guardians of freedom abroad, while curtailing basic rights within their own country?